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Re: [orca-list] Experimental focus versus browse mode committed to master

Hello,
Okay I have rechecked this. I have to apologise because I have strongly been advertising my prefered solution while I was referring to NVDA behaviour on windows. I have rechecked and here is how it works there. When you are in browse mode using quick navigation commands never causes focus mode to be switched automatically. While using arrow keys to navigate in browse mode you do have a choice whether you do want to automatically switch to focus mode or not when arrowing into interactive focusable controls. You do have the same option of choice for focus changes caused by the browser or the underlying web app it-self available as a single option. This is something a bit different we do currently have here however what we have is also verry usefull. Now we need to workout whether we would like to try duplicating their behaviour or whether we prefer one of the suggestions presented here. 


Greetings

Peter

On 09.08.2014 at 07:28 Peter Vágner wrote:

Hello,
Now while in browse mode you are using quick navigation commands to jump into a focusable control such as e for going to an entry or c for going into a combobox it switches to focus mode. Would you also like to change something on this please? I am trying to understand whether you can try to identify navigating with quick command keys and navigating with arrow keys are similar and should be treated the same way if possible. Of course if that's not too much and is in fact doable I have kindly asked to adapt some configuration related features that have something to do with this too. Still it's important to know how you see this to make the most out of this. 

Greetings

Peter

On 09.08.2014 o 01:20 covici ccs covici comwrote:

I think I disagree, with the arrow keys, I would like it not to switch
modes at all until I tell it to do so by hand.  I want to be able to
pass through an edit box without it changing.  If you tab, this is a
different matter.

Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:


Hello again,
And I apologise for double posting. I have found an issue. Previously I
assumed you have tried to incorporate the behaviour we have tried to
explain with Geoff regarding quick navigation so I haven't included it in 
my previous message.
Currently while tabbing around or pressing quick navigation keys auto focus mode feature kicks in. However while reading the page by pressing the arrow keys it does not kick in. If it's doable it should behave the same way no mather whether we are pressing quick navigation keys or arrow keys. If you wish to allow more customization later on it is questionable whether we can accept proposal to incorporate similar options like I have described can be seen in NVDA. The important bit on this is whether screen reader related features cause the focus to move or on a contrary browser features and web 
based app behaviour cause the focus to move. Of course additional point
which has to be considered is say all. I guess while say all is in progress 
no switching should happen otherwise say all will get interupted by the
focus changes.
If I am not verry clear I will try to explain in other words what I mean. 
Hopefully it makes sense and something can be done about it.


Ooops and while writing this message I did something I am unable to
replicate again. It concerns that visivig editor found in the gmail app
where I am writing this text. When I press letter e followed by orca+a in 
order to skip over entries and texts on the page until I will get into
this visivig editor. Now with the system focus in the gmail visivig editor 
with orca switched to focus mode I start typing. Once I'll press a
navigation shortcut key for example the letter e I can no longer type into this field and orca switches it self into browse mode. I guess this needs 
to be tested further.

Big thanks once again

Greetings


Peter.


2014-08-08 23:01 GMT+02:00 Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com>:


Hello,
In order to demonstrate we can already feel enough awesomeness in this
update I am posting this message using the gmail interface.
Overal experience is now much more consistent. Usually even tbing to
various aria buttons, toggle buttons and simiral controls already switches to focus mode making subsequent popup menus, dialogs and other stuff like 
this more natural to use.
I will test more throughly tomorow and during subsequent days. For example I need to try to understand what is the issue with list of conversations in gmail not switching to focus mode. All other places where I have tested it 
so far appear to work consistently enough depending on the web app in
question. Of course we have to understand web apps are also not perfect on 
this.
Another issue which I need to understand so I will be able to decide
whether this is an orca issue a firefox issue or an web site authoring
issue is within the google search page. For example go to the google.com 
and notice the focus mode is automagically turned on because the page
changes the focus to the edit field it self. Now type something into the browse mode and navigate before the text you just have typed by repeatedly pressing the left arrow key. All is well and you can manage that. Now arrow over the text you have just typed in the opposite direction by repeatedly 
pressing the right arrow key. Still all is fine you are able to
successfully able to read the text. However keep pressing right arrow key when you are after the text you have just typed and examine what you are reading. You are arrowing over all the suggestions google came up with when you have typed the string in. Instead I expect to only read the entry's value when in browse mode. Also I should try to test this with previous 
versions in order to discover whether this is a new behaviour or not.
As I said I am verry happy about this movement and I'll try to give more 
feetback.

Thanks and greetings

Peter


2014-08-08 22:40 GMT+02:00 Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>:

Hey guys.

Based on the feedback received, I have just committed the following
changes to master:
* Orca will automatically switch between "focus mode" and "browse mode" 

* Orca will announce "focus mode" or "browse mode" when it does this
   for you. It is currently at the end of the presentation of the new
location. That way, if you know what the deal is (of course it is in focus mode now), you don't have to listen to Orca tell you. You can 
   just keep browsing or interacting with the widget.
* The current keybinding is Orca + A. This will toggle between the two modes. I chose this because we needed something for you to test. And 
   it was the only suggestion I saw proposed by y'all which didn't
conflict with existing bindings or result in complaints from someone else. If y'all don't like Orca + A, propose something we all can live 
   with or rebind it to something you can live with.
* All the non-perfomant and non-reliable logic about whether or not Orca should really control things is ripped out. Arrowing seems a bit more 
   peppy to me now. I hope you find the same.

What I have not committed/done yet:
* Playing tones. That's a nice to have. We can add it later.
* Documentation. We don't know what the final feature will look like.
* Settings. Orca does it automatically. It's easy to toggle off.
What would be extremely helpful is testing from you to see what you all 
think. What is totally broken, what must be changed, etc. In the
meantime, I'll see what I can do about the looping, etc.

Thanks!
--joanie
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html 
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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