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Re: [orca-list] GNOME3 overview and Orca

Much agreed! I think that Dave's idea would be great.

On 02/18/2012 08:42 AM, Dave Hunt wrote:
I think it is enough for orca to say "overview", with a tutorial message available, if user has that toggled on. Maybe tutorial can say something like, 
"begin typing to search; ctrl+alt+tab to cycle views".


Cheers,


Dave




On 02/17/2012 07:26 PM, Piñeiro wrote:

As I said in my original mail, when hitting alt+f1 in GNOME 3 Shell,
user get focused on the overview, that is one of the main views of GNOME
Shell. Anyway, during the previous months, you got or not "overview
panel" presented depending on the status of the development.

In relation with the buttons as panel, and top panel applet, those
issues are solved or partially solved on the list of bugs that I listed
on my first mail. All those bugs have patches, and hopefully they will
be integrated on GNOME Shell for the next 3.4 release. Sorry for not
explain that properly, I was explaining "current situation" based on
some patches that are not still integrated. In summary, during last
weeks I had time to provide some patches, and improve the situation. The
purpose of my mail was trying to solve a doubt on a specific issue.

With all the patches integrated, this is the situation:
* You press "alt+f1", orca presents "overview panel", as the main view 
changed to the overview
   * In this view you can press Ctrl+Alt+Tab and select Top Bar, Dash,
Windows, Applications or Search
* Or you can press a letter, and automatically focused to the Search entry 

So the question is: it is enough to present "overview panel" when you
move to the overview? or it would be good to expose more than that?

On 02/17/2012 10:09 PM, Dave Hunt wrote:

When hitting 'alt+f1' in gnome 3 shell, I get focused in the search
area, it's called something else.  Like Robert, below, I had read an
introduction to the gnome shell before starting.  If you don't know
where something is, or exactly what is called, the search is a fine
way to get to the group of likely candidates, represented by a bunch
of buttons, all navigable in orca.  What I could not figure is how to
get to things like the network manager applet, power indicator, volume
controls, etc.  Maybe those items have been made more accessible since
my last attempts to use Gnome shell?  Orca seemed to just read the
panel items as 'image' or 'panel'.  Maybe, if the indicator applets
and hot corner were accessible, and there were a prompt that one is in
the over-view search area, Gnome Shell would be more orca-friendly?


Cheers,



Dave





On 02/17/2012 03:24 PM, Robert cole wrote:

Hello, Piñeiro.
For me this is no big deal--referring to the focus jumping to the search feature when typing as soon as the Overview is opened. I have used GNOME 
for the past five years or so, though, and I like to learn new things,
so that is what I did when GNOME 3 was released--I went to this GNOME
Library page [1] and started reading!

As far as the immediate search when typing as soon as the Overview is
opened, some users who would be new to GNOME (meaning they have never
used it before whatsoever) could possibly become confused because they
do not know what to expect or what to do unless they are taught or
informed about this in some way, shape or form. the problem is, though, 
that some people (I used to be one) will just jump in without reading,
mistakenly call a "feature" a "bug", get frustrated, and leave.

I am not completely sure if writing a guide would be absolutely
necessary as I found this line when reading the Introduction to GNOME
page [2]:

"...You can also just start typing to search your applications, files,
and folders."

I am not sure what to do in the case of brand new Linux users who have
never even heard of GNOME, however. I can see how you would think that
this feature could be misleading, however. Take, for example, a user who is used to opening up menus and lists, and using the first letter of an 
application or menu to jump to that specific application or menu (e.g.
[T]erminal)
I am sorry that I cannot be of much help, but I just wanted to add in my 
two cents in response to your message.

Take care ,and all the best.


[1] http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/
[2]
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-introduction.html.en 


On 02/17/2012 10:42 AM, Piñeiro wrote:

Hi,
during the last weeks I have been working on improving the ATK support for GNOME Shell (for example [1][2][3][4][5]), the default desktop for 
GNOME3, and now I have a doubt related to make things more intuitive.
Specifically, related to what happens when you enter on the overview.
Background: On GNOME Shell the behaviour is different to previous GNOME 
desktop. As with other desktop, initially you are placed on the
Desktop.
If you press Alt+Tab you move between application windows. If you press Alt+Ctrl+Tab you move between different parts of the desktop, like top 
panel. But, when you press Alt+F1 you don't move to an applications
menu. You get moved to the overview. Anyway the purpose of both is more 
or less the same. The purpose of the overview is also searching for
applications and places. Once you are at the overview, if you press
Ctrl+Alt+Tab you can move to a different places:

* Dash : list of favourites applications (get focused on the first
one) accessibility support is still a work in progress
* Applications: the list of all the applications, you can navigate to
the right region to select categories. List of applications are
accessible, categories work in progress
* Search: it is a search entry. Something similar to a google search.
When you set the focus here Orca presents his hint "Type to search". If you start to type, a search is started and you can navigate on the list 
of items
* Top Panel: like in the normal view
* Windows: select again the main overview region
My question is related to what happen when you move to the overview. If 
you press Alt+F1, Orca expose "overview panel" because the object
focused is the overview panel containing all this stuff. If the user
start to write, the focus is automatically moved to the Search Entry
and
Orca briefly presents "Type to search" in order to report the user that 
the focus was moved, as if the Search entry were selected with the
Ctrl+Alt+Tab shortcut. But I'm not sure if this is misleading, of the
user can understand what it is happening.

What do you think? It would be enough to write a kind of Orca+GNOME
Shell guide to explain all this? Or it would be also required to add
some kind of extra information related with entering the overview?

Thanks for your attention

BR


[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667432
[2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668361
[3] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668366
[4] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670308
[5] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670312




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp





_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html 
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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