On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 08:48:59AM -0500, Alex Midence wrote:
I'd be surprised to learn that any straight Microsoft app would run in Wine. I wonder if something like Open Book would run in Wine though.
well, if wine was perfectly binary compatable they would, but needless to say wine is incredibly far from that. As for open book I have no idea.
You bring up some very very interesting points though. If Ia2 and ATK are more complex than MSAA, I wonder why someone hasn't tried get at-spi to work with them. Rich or not, a lot of work has been done on
I don't really know, but I would suspect effort, and time are the big reasons.
making many many apps work with MSA and much of that work has been in entire libraries like, WxWidgets, for instance. It would be nice if an Orca user could benevit from such work and use applications which are currently not as accessible as they could be due to this library's poor integration with at-spi.
I have no problem with a msaa -> atk bridge, but if that is the problem you want to solve I think you'd be far better off fixing the atk interefaces of libraries than hacking around them with wine. Trev
Alex M On 3/31/11, Trevor Saunders <trev saunders gmail com> wrote:On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:14:06AM +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:Hello, Yes what you say Jacob makes a lot of sense. I have to say the bridging from wine to at-spi seems more possible with the current situation of wine but still that would be a very large task and as you say what would the actual results be like (IE. are the two accessibility APIs too different for them really to map well).I'm not too familiar with either msaa or IA2, but afaik msaa shares many general ideas with atk and IA2, for example in all three an object has a set of states, however the set of states an msaa object can have is much smaller than the set in either IA2 or atk. For example msaa doesn't have a checkable state, so I imagine it relies on a checkbox role or something to say that something is checkeable. So I'm not sure that it would be *that* hard to map one to the other, but it seems likely to me that you'd need to write a fairly complex script for orca to make it work well.As for the question of do we really need windows, unfortunately the answer is probably going to be for some a yes, regardless of Linux accessibility. There are a hand full of very specialist applications which are closed source and the authors are not interested in supporting Linux. However for many people the answer is probably they can do all that is needed (eg. for more than 95% of my computer use I am probably able to complete it all in Linux).its also worth noting that not all apps run in wine, iirc visual studio doesn't, and there are certainly others.On -10/01/37 20:59, Jacob Schmude wrote:Hi Currently, no Windows screen reader will work under wine because of two major problems. The first problem, in a nutshell, is that Wine has almost none of the internal MSAA or UIA hooks that they need in order to work. Also, where the proprietary screen readers are concerned, Wine has no facility for hooking up drivers which rules out the display driver approach used by most of them. The second issue, though less serious, is that Wine does not emulate a full Windows environment (i.e. none of the Windows GUI is emulated). Wine will run a single application in a partially-emulated Windows environment. So, saying "wine nvda.exe" will run wine with nvda, but realize that nvda is considered the application which Wine is to run. There's no start menu, no desktop, nor any of that so, even if NVDA or another screen reader were to work, you'd have no way to launch another application within that environment where the screen reader is running.I'm not very familiar with wine, would it work to run wine cmd.exe and then in the command prompt you get run nvda? That's suboptimal, but better than nothing. TrevWhat would be neat is if Wine could bridge standard MSAA and UIA hooks to at-spi somehow. It could probably be done, but it wouldn't be a quick or easy thing to do. The end result would be that Windows applications in Wine would communicate enough to run with Orca, but I'm not sure if everything could be emulated correctly since at-spi and MSAA/UIA are different in their approaches. As for Linux being able to do everything that Windows can... I wish. I really wish it could, and we're getting there. In fact, for most people who don't require accessibility, we're already there. Unfortunately however, some apps are either not available or written in QT (i.e. Skype) and we either can't use them or can only do so half way. We're close, but we're not quite there yet as far as accessibility goes. On 03/30/2011 07:17 PM, Kyle wrote:I'm currently not able to get NVDA speaking using Wine. It complains about ALSA, Pulse and a few other things, but it does play the startup and shutdown sounds, so ALSA and Pulse don't seem to be the real problem. I have the portable version of NVDA in $HOME/nvda. Running cd nvda wine nvda.exe plays the startup sound followed immediately by the shutdown sound. Several errors about alsa, Pulse and a dll called winemp3.acm, which I believe is just an mp3 codec, and shouldn't be required to start NVDA speech, appear in the terminal, and the program dies. It looks as though fixes are needed in Wine somewhere before NVDA can be made to speak. ~Kyle _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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