Re: [orca-list] [Fwd: Default button of Orca]

[Hammer Attila <hammera pickup hu>]

Hy Joanie and Alan,

Sorry first the long letter.
Following letter part only my openion, and perhaps containing some 
subjective comment parts. I not want this modification for downstream 
and upstream level, but perhaps my openion have because I looking 
translator and technical specific this downstream modification result.
Of course if more beginner users would like this change, better doing 
this modification with upstream level to provide compatibility for 
distribution independent. If this is true, and more beginner people 
answering for example +1 this modification, I full agree this change, 
but only upstream level to provide compatibility with distributions 
independent.
Personaly, I better prefer please don't do this for Ubuntu releases 
gnome-orca package and upstream level if this is possible, if more 
people not want this change.

For example, I very like the traditional since years used method. Look 
beginner user perspective this question:
One way to presenting help topics for Orca to beginner user press three 
TAB key and Space key to activate the help button.
Another easyest way, beginner user press One Shift+TAB key combination 
and press a space or enter key to presenting help topics for orca
Best simplest way to presenting help topics for orca: If the user press 
F1 key, Yelp will be presenting Orca help page, I tryed. F1 key for 
presenting help page for an application is a general usable command if 
an user don't known how can possible using an application. This is 
general for Windows and GNOME desktop environment, in Orca absolute sure 
working this possibility, of course I tested (now only master branch 
Orca version).

Look what interesting problems will be resulting perhaps this little 
downstream modification if happening for example only Ubuntu gnome-orca 
package, for example if Alan put this modification for a patch with 
debian/patches directory with source package:
Downstream patching the gnome-orca package is the bad fix way for this 
problem if more beginner users real would like this change.
Why I say this?
For example, in Orca help page Joanie wrote already what main buttons 
are have in Orca main window, but for example want future put a 
paragraph for help documentation the main window default button is 
Preferences button. Translators of course translating future Orca help 
page for l10n.gnome.org the new paragraph with master branch, similar 
with prewious 3.0 release. No problem, only now have Orca level 
maintenanced the help documentation, so now need doing one time this 
work, and if not happening distribution dependent modifications for main 
window, the documentation is distribution independent compatible. Now, 
Orca help page documentation editing and translation is happening with 
centralized way, this is absolute good.
If Ubuntu downstream level accepted this patch, and want documenting 
this change for Orca help page, need changing Ubuntu level the Orca help 
page documentation with Joanie wrote documentation part (replace the 
proper paragraph with help page the default button), but translators 
need translating this changed help page part for Launchpad.net website.
If possible please don't do this way the modification,  please don't 
difficulting for Orca translators work this downstream way modification. 
Better the upstream fix if more beginner users want this possibility and 
keep central translating and maintenancing the documentation.
Little off topic, but this similar problem doed now for Ubuntu 
documentation team to begin forking new Ubuntu documentation with Unity, 
with based of GNOME3 user documentation (GNOME3 user documentation based 
with GNOME Shell). Now, documentation translators perhaps need 
translating future two documentations, one for GNOME3 user documentation 
with distribution independent, but if want own language Ubuntu help 
topics, need translating another way for example with Ubuntu specific 
Unity documentation. Of course, this offtopic problem is little 
different, but with translators work related the result is equals. This 
is good or not? I don't no, but resulting more work.
Look this problem related link with detailed:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2011-April/004675.html

Coming back for upstream or downstream way fixes for Orca:
Another interesting result for this future downstream modification, the 
user will be seeing different working method for Orca main window with 
distribution to distribution. Seeing different default button for main 
window with Ubuntu, and seeing different working method for example with 
Arch Linux, Debian, or Opensuse. This is difficulting future the education.

And last, looking an interesting future issue with I think will be 
happening, and showing disadwantage with downstream modification:
For example, if accessibility profiles Unity will be default for Ocelot, 
how can possible changing the tutorial messages for Orca, A downstream 
patch?
Upstream level perhaps need doing change for tutorial messages if have 
accessible way using with GNOME Shell, I not see yet GNOME3. Interesting 
question, how can possible determining Orca upstream level what type 
environment using the visual impaired Orca user: GNOME Shell of GNOME3, 
GNOME3 for fallback mode, or perhaps Unity for only Ubuntu, or classic 
GNOME session for oldest distributions? For example in Ubuntu Ocelot 
possible choosing the GNOME Shell and GNOME3, or only possible choosing 
Unity and Unity2d? Now I not see full clear.
Prewious, GNOME based distributions this main upstream level Orca 
feature implementation is easy, because equals compatible GNOME desktop 
environment have, with equals basic keystrokes. Jon implemented this 
feature wonderful for Orca since 2008 if I remember right, and this 
feature is a very useful function for beginner users.
But now, Ubuntu have Unity, and Classic GNOME session (in Natty). In 
Ocelot, now we don't known what GNOME version will be have, but 99% 
absolute sure not will be have the classic GNOME session if not 
happening a drastical problem.
If anybody make a downstream patch with tutorial messages change related 
and want marking translation the tutorial messages (this is of course 
need to provide localization support for tutorial messages), this 
modification resulting translators two place need translating Orca 
related messages, similar with Natty gnome-orca package added current 
selected desktop environment announce related patch.

Not simplest handling now downstream Ubuntu specific patch implemented 
features with upstream level, if possible absolute sure identifying the 
desktop environment differences?

Attila