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Re: [orca-list] date and time keybindings

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Getting a bit off topic perhaps, but I'm seeing a consistent flaw in
your reasoning. You are mistaking Windows for GUI. People aren't
interested in using GNOME because of its resemblance to Windows, they
want to use it because it, like most GUIs, makes things easier. You
should, I think, look into GUI history a bit more. There was a lot of
GUIs that people used before Windows, and will be many to come even
after Windows and GNOME are ashes. Most people using GNOME or any
alternate GUI environment, actually, are people who are interested in
something *different* from Windows yet still consistent with some of the
very basic GUI concepts they already know. If not, they wouldn't even
look at it since, after all, they're not interested in anything but
Windows. By the logic you are applying, nothing different from Windows
would ever take off since it's different from what people already know.
People will use what works for them. IF someone likes Windows or its
associated AT products better, by all means use them. Some of us though
don't find Windows or JFW the pinnacle of useability. That is why I at
least looked at things other than Windows to begin with, not because
they were like Windows but because they were different and offered
something new and promising.

On 05/01/2010 02:18 PM, Glenn Ervin wrote:


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joanmarie Diggs" <joanmarie diggs gmail com>
To: "Glenn Ervin" <GlennErvin cableone net>
Cc: "Orca List" <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] date and time keybindings


Hi Glenn.


I prefer the JFW key bindings, as they seem most intuitive to me.


Intuitive or familiar?
* Joanie,
I state "intuitive".
If you can see, or if not, you may know that even the sighted folk have put 
print arrows, and page-up and down, and so on on the number pad, that is not 
coinsidence.
    Also, keep in mind that the majority of screenreader users use JFW, not 
because it is better, or maybe it is, I happen to think that Window Eyes is 
more stable, but I prefer JFW.
People primarrilly in Linux often forget that it would serve their goal to 
make it most appealing.
That thought is why Gnome was developed.


 I wish
someone would make a JFW-like set of key bindings that could be loaded 
into
Orca.


Do you also wish that someone would make a Windows-like set of key
bindings that could be loaded into GNOME?
* Yes.

As a reminder, the GNOME desktop is not Windows;
* In fact, it is only of any interest to most people because of its 
resemblence to windows.
How many sighted folk really wish to do text input when they can use a mouse 
instead?

Orca is not JAWS. There
is not a one-to-one correspondence between Orca commands and JAWS
commands, nor is there a one-to-one correspondence between Orca "modes"
and JAWS "modes".
* there should be.

But even if we didn't care about that and figured we'd slap together
something that kinda sorta mapped for the sake of being familiar for
JAWS users, we're leaving out a bunch of folks. In order to be fair, we
should probably do the same thing for Window-Eyes and
NVDA users.
* JFW is the leader in screenreaders, so why not try to appeal to what 
people prefer?
I propose that JFW is the leader because of its key bindings.
Glenn

And
since Orca also has magnification functionality, we really need to do
mappings for folks coming to us from ZoomText and MAGic. Oops, almost
forgot: VoiceOver users.

So that means we'd require the following layouts:

1. Orca Desktop
2. Orca Laptop
3. JAWS-like Desktop
4. JAWS-like Laptop
5. Window-Eyes-like Desktop
6. Window-Eyes-like Laptop
7. NVDA-like Desktop
8. NVDA-like Laptop
9. ZoomText-like Desktop
10. ZoomText-like Laptop
11. MAGic-like Desktop
12. MAGic-like Laptop
13. VoiceOver-like Desktop
14. VoiceOver-like Laptop

More if we need to also ensure a smooth transition for Hal/SuperNova
users. ;-)

Then there's the maintenance: Even if we decided to discriminate against
all screen readers but JAWS in this loadable-layout scenario, that would
give us four keyboard layouts. Currently, when creating new Orca
commands, it's hard enough to find ideal, intuitive, available
keybindings. Now we also have to ensure that we find them for two
additional layouts? And I'd bet money that if we went to all the trouble
to do so, one of the things we'd see is confused and frustrated users
posting questions here to the effect of "I'm using the JFW-like set of
keybindings. So why isn't Orca working like JAWS?"

Having said all that, there's nothing stopping you from binding Orca's
commands to whatever you'd like them to be.

--joanie





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