Re: [orca-list] date and time keybindings

[Jacob Schmude <j schmude gmail com>]

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Hi Steve
Well, the structural navigation keys make sense. H for heading, B for
button. That's not so much copying other screen readers as it is binding
sensible keystrokes. The fact that other screen readers also saw these
as sensible just makes, well, sense. <smile> My objection to f12 is
simply that it is only being proposed for compatibility and not because
it makes sense. I don't have anything against copying sensible things,
if you do anything in software development that's simply unavoidable.
What I don't like is copying something that doesn't make sense simply
because it would make a product transition easier. Any transition to
another system involves a bit of learning, and there's no sense in
emulation just so that people don't have to learn.
Okay, I'll shut up now. <grin>

On 05/01/2010 09:30 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 09:16:00AM -0400, Jacob Schmude wrote:
> > Hi
> > Try an experiment. On a typical, desktop-style, full keyboard press
> > numpad+0 (insert) and F12. How comfortable is that? It's fine on a
> > laptop keyboard, as caps+f12 isn't that far off track, but on a desktop
> > keyboard you might as well go look at the panel... except that, in GNOME
> > 2.30, we can't thanks to a regression in the clock applet.
> > If we don't like using two keys, then I propose orca+t to either speak
> > both the time and date at once (something similar to what Window-Eyes
> > does when you press insert+t) or have date as a double-tap of orca+t.
> > F12 is just too far out of the way, and there's no reason to copy JAWS
> > (which is what NVDA did) when we can make it better instead. I really
> > don't want to see Orca fall into the trap of copying other screen
> > readers just for the sake of compatibility. It does a disservice to the
> > users in the end. GNOME is not Windows, it will never be Windows, and
> > making Orca copy Windows products too much will cause problems when the
> > users run into something in GNOME that just isn't the same regardless of
> > screen reader. True, this is just a date/time keystroke, but I'm
> > concerned about precedent. Now it's date and time, will it be flat
> > review commands next because users have to learn something new and some
> > people think that's too hard? I raise the issue now, because f12 doesn't
> > make sense as a date/time key *except* for compatibility and only
> > compatibility with jaws.
> > Maybe I'm insane, but I'm concerned. Thoughts?
>
> No, you're not insane at all.  I agree totally with you on this thing
> of cloning behavior of other screen readers.  I don't give a damn
> about jaws or being compatible with it at all.  I use window-eyes and
> beta test for them; this discussion comes up over there too.  Should
> we do a particular thing like jaws does it? no, let's do it the "right
> way".  I feel Orca should follow that path as well.  Let's not do
> something or with a particular key just because jaws does it that
> way.
>
> I know we just had some discussion with the browser structural
> navigation keys and aligning them with other screen reader
> conventions.  That might make more sense as structural navigation is
> probably much more widely used and may offer up more confusion when
> doing something as basic as locating parts of a page.
>
> As for date/time, I personally took Storm's original script and merged
> it down to a single function and use the orca+T key for a single
> announcement; that is my preferred method.  Maybe an unbound key could
> be built for a date/time function.  Personally, I sould rather combine
> date and time to a single slog so we don't eate up keyboard realestate
> so quickly.  I make this last point because instead of using orca+D
> for the date, I mapped that key to rotor debug levels.
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