Re: [orca-list] Thoughts on a "list of elements" feature for Orca in Firefox

[Michael Whapples <mwhapples aim com>]

On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 20:31 +0200, Hermann wrote:
> Michael Whapples writes:
>  > Hello,
>  > I have to agree with Willie on this, I think the correct place for such
>  > a feature would be as a plugin for firefox. In saying this, I am not
>  > saying that such a feature would be useless, just suggesting that there
>  > may be better places than orca for it.
>  > 
> As I've stated in an earlier mail, this extension not expires every
> few days/weeks due to compatibility reasons, but is not that handy and
> convenient:
> It adds a menu item "accessibility" with a lot of subitems that are
> more important for analytical reasons than for a11y.
> Furthermore a lot of its hotkeys collide with the Orca structural
> navigation keys, so that one must temporarily deactivate them. (BTW.:
> is there a bypass key in Orca, cannot remember, but this could be my
> fault).
I wasn't necessarily saying that there is an existing plugin, just
suggesting where such development might be done. If it was designed as a
tool to fit with screen readers, then those screen readers which would
expect you to use it would have a suitable key map. On the topic of
compatibility with firefox, the problem could be to do with where
firefox 3 is in the development cycle, and possibly if pre-release
software is going to be used then you have to expect issues will keep
cropping up. Hopefully this will improve as firefox 3 is getting closer
to being released. There has been times where orca has been affected by
changes in firefox 3, so its not necessarily a problem just to
extensions.
> If we rethink Michael's point of view, we could ask why there's a
> structural navigation in Orca at all? Moreover: Why not let an
> extension do the whole a11y job?
If such a thing could be done, and it could be made to work reliably
with screen readers (obviously including orca), why not? Such a system
could reduce the chance of conflict between the plugin's key commands
and the screen readers.
> So if we decide to let Orca do some structural navigation on webpages,
> why not do the whole job?
> This mustn't mean to extend Orca's function to a Jaws or WE level, but
> to think and discuss what's really needed and what not.
I think you just hit the nail on the head, some careful thought needs to
be put into this, particularly if it were to be a split design as there
are certain features which would rely on other features, and so would
need to be in the same part. eg. If we were to add Jason's idea of
having a system to repeat orca commands N times, then this could not be
made as a firefox plugin if structural navigation (as is) is kept in
orca (if it could be done, probably wouldn't be reliable as it might be
working through keypresses if it was trying to be generic, or would be
very specific to orca in which case why have it separate if it is only
of use to orca?).

I will admit one possible argument against the full plugin idea is that
when one installs orca, unless it installs the plugin as well, then orca
would be useless with firefox until the firefox plugin was installed (I
just have the vision of so many questions here relating to "How do I get
orca working with firefox?"). May be that would be a case for split
design, core features such as structural navigation in orca so all users
get it, and anythig potentially optional in a plugin.

Michael Whapples
> Hermann