Re: [orca-list] Another Suggestion for OpenOffice/Orca Improvement

hi jasen, peter, janina and attn: wili.

On 19/05/2008, Peter Korn <Peter Korn sun com> wrote:
Hi Janina,

OOo Writer has keyboard functionality for navigation by paragraph:
Ctrl-Up/Down arrow.  Add shift to select.  For deleting lines, Home
followed by shift up/down arrow will select lines you can then delete.

I think most of us were aware about this but thanks peter for
reminding.  however the issue is not just selecting one line or so or
selecting a paragraph or 2.
as I stated in my previous emails on this thread, a much scientific
approach demans presiseness in less time and with minimal use of keys.
for example I want to select 15 lines and move them 25 lines down the
document and the paragraphs are long and non uniform.
here the emacs or some what vim approach will be much more productive.
 I hope janina and other users of either tools will understand what I
mean, given the keyboard commands these tools offer.
Not the same - and in many cases not as fast - as vi.  But in case you
didn't already know about these...

Exactly peter, as I stated above.
by the way willi, I have seen you many times commenting on oo related
accessibility matters.  Will it be possible for some how getting some
one to write such an extention to openoffice?
the only problem I see is what kind of an interface?  there will be a
big arguement between emacs lovers and vim lovers and nano, not really
so it is much of a non technical matter to be solved I beleive.

Separately, I just took a "Hands on Lab" class at the recent JavaOne
conference, where I learned about writing extensions -
specifically Java using NetBeans.  One option for folks wanting more
vi/emacs-style (or WordPerfect style, for that matter) keyboard gestures
would be to write an OOo Writer extension to encapsulate just that
functionality.  This should be a far easier task that trying to modify
the actual OOo codebase itself.  I haven't dug into the details of
making keyboard gesture modifications (the lab covered adding menu
items, dialog boxes, file translators/converters, and adding smart
tags), but it appears that most of the object model is exposed to
extension writers.

That's great, I would like to know if there are good documents or
tutorials for this available on line?
peter, can you point me to a few?
in this entire thread the focus of discussion has been comparison with
emacs and vim.  but in addition we can even find some things more
which we can add.  I will start listing down a few in a seperate
document, out of my accessibility experience.
happy hacking.


Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

This suggestion may seem wacky, but I am most earnest. So, I articulate
my thought here wondering whether I'm alone in my insanity.

I would dearly love to "gene splice" OpenOffice && { vim | emacs }

Since I've been a vim user mostly, I'll make my examples vim specific.
But, the same would hold for emacs.

Having now worked with Orca and OpenOffice (off and on) for the better
part of a year, I still find myself hampered by the inherently
mouse-oriented "highlight and click" nature of the editing process. I'm
sure it's great for mouse users, but it's [expletive deleted] for me.
Yes, I feel pretty strong about this.

If I want to delete one, or maybbe 4 lines, I have to carefully
highlight that block before deleting in OpenOffice. In vim I simply do
d$, or dd, or d4d, depending.

Please note the difference between vim's D$ and dd. Achieving that in
OpenOffice requires care to include the end of line char in the
highlighted block.

There are many more examples, including many for which I don't believe
OO provides real equivalents--such as vim's bookmarking 'm' capibility
and all the functionality that goes along with it.

The reason I have such strong feelings about this is that the
operational difference ends up taking a very significant amount of time.
If I could be convinced that I simply need to be more proficient with
OO, I'd drop my argument then and there--but I don't believe that's the
case. It's simply more efficient to drive editing the vim (or emacs) way
if you have to do so from the keyboard. Am I wrong?

Nor is ignoring OO and sticking with latec an option. I need to work
with documents that come to me through the mail from others, and those
will often by Ms Word (and increasingly OO).

So, how possible is a vim-style overlay for OO? Clearly if it existed,
it would need a command (vs. insert) mode--just like vim itself. Else,
how would one insert 'dd' into a doc, as opposed to deleting a line?
Fortunately, unlike Speakup which never gained the ability to identify
command mode vs insert mode programmatically, Orca, could easily switch
voices for that in speech, and probably find a suitable indicator in

So, am I alone in my pipeless dream? Have I completely lost my marbles?


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