Re: [orca-list] Orca 2.22.0 a bad regression

[Kenny Hitt <kenny hittsjunk net>]

Hi.  Replying inline.
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 06:21:59PM +1100, Jason White wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 01:07:25AM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
>
> Are you using the latest Firefox, namely, Firefox 3 beta 4? Both Firefox 3 and
> Orca have been undergoing changes and it is possible that there are version
> incompatibilities. The latest Firefox should work better with Orca 2.22.

Actually, Firefox is now up to beta 5.  I've not only tried the latest nightly build but a build from 03/10 
and a beta 4 build from 02/28 with the same results.

> Can you be more precise about the problems you are experiencing? The last
> problem you reported was with text not being spoken as you move through the
> document. As I recall, there was a reply on the list to the effect that this
> problem couldn't be reproduced, which means that you'll have to provide
> additional information to track down the issue. Making sure you have the right
> versions of the right software installed properly would be a good start. I'm
> not saying that you haven't done this, but rather that it's a process of
> elimination and testing that needs to be carried out.

It is the same problem.  The reply I saw on the list said they could reproduce it and knew about it.  That's 
why I made the below comment.
It wasn't broken during the 2.21 versions I tested, however, I didn't test all 2.21 releases.

> > What makes this really bad
> > is it appears Orca developers knew Firefox access was broke, but they
> > released it any way and then left for the week.  Showing off new things at a
> > conference is good, but what about your user base?  Like it or not, you now
> > have users who depend on Firefox access.
>
> Do you have any evidence for the above accusations?

Sure, no Orca developers were around on #orca for the past week.  Problems couldn't get addressed.  They knew 
the release schedule as well as the date of the conference.  
At this point, it appears showing off new toys was more important to them.  It looks like all developers were 
needed at the conference.

I know I'm being harsh, but I can't forget the first several years of Gnome accessibility.  Similar behavior 
from Gnopernicus developers kept Gnome access from improving for a long time.

> What happened was that Gnome 2.22 was released, including Orca, and this had
> nothing to do with the timing of any conference. Presenting at conferences is
> an important component of building a community. It is perfectly possible that
> due to the Gnome 2.22 schedule and the fact that Firefox is still changing as
> it moves toward release, some Orca/Firefox bugs weren't fixed in time for the
> 2.22 release.
>
> Meanwhile, Firefox code is still changing and beta 4 was recently made
> available..
>
> I would respectfully recommend calmly and rationally trying to sort out your
> problem, instead of writing an inflammatory rant to the list that helps
> nobody, including you. For this process to work, discussions need to remain
> civil and respectful.
>
> If you focus on what the problem is and provide proper details I'm sure others
> in this community will help to resolve it satisfactorily.
I have already posted 2 examples for this problem.  I have a solution here, downgrade Orca or use elinks.  
Lucky for me the sites I need now can be viewed with elinks.
I'm posting this because I feel it is an issue that needs to be addressed for the future.
BTW, this mail isn't harsh compared to post from me in the past over Gnome accessibility issues.  If you look 
through the gnome-accessibility archives, you will see what I mean.

          Kenny