Re: [orca-list] Reading texts in Firefox/XUL applications

[Peter Korn <Peter Korn Sun COM>]

Hi Rich, Milan,

However we may feel about whether caret navigation is best done in Orca 
or Firefox, there is the small matter of Section 508 compliance and the 
importance of meeting the needs of people with physical impairments who 
may not be using an application like Orca.

Section 508 § 1194.21(a) (see 
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/standards.htm#Subpart_b) makes it 
very clear that virtually all tasks that can be accomplished from the 
mouse must be accomplishable from the keyboard.  You can select text to 
copy to a clipboard, and you can navigate to XUL elements with the 
mouse, therefore you must be able to do so from the keyboard.

It would be nice if Orca could simply re-use an existing rich and robust 
Firefox keyboard navigation mechanism, but it also makes sense that Orca 
would want do to more (e.g. heading navigation), and want do achieve 
results sooner (e.g. in Orca version 2.20).


All that said, I think it is an entirely different question when it 
comes to text that cannot be manipulated in any way (e.g. static text in 
a dialog box).  If the user cannot select the text to copy it with a 
mouse (as they can with text in a web page shown in the browser), or 
otherwise manipulate the text in any way, then there is certainly no 
regulatory reason (e.g. Section 508) why it should be in the tab 
traversal order.  And while GNOME GTK+ dialogs offer some of this 
functionality with static text in many cases being able to receive 
focus, I am personally unconvinced this is necessary or appropriate. It 
seems entirely reasonable to me to make the responsibility dividing line 
in this instance place this responsibility on the AT - e.g. for Orca to 
implement flat review of the dialog box.  Of course, others may differ!


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

> Seems to me that Firefox should attempt to provide some rutamentary carret 
> navigation in XUL elements.  Also, its my understanding that XUL doesn't 
> really have specific elements for displaying large amounts of textual data; 
> it can use HTML elements for this.  Most of what XUL provides are various 
> flavors of input: single and multi-line text input, trees, listboxes, 
> checkboxes, radio buttons and explicit radio button groups, labels, and 
> simple push buttons). It has box elements for layout (sort of like divs), 
> but no paragraph or heading.
>
> Just my two cents.
> -- Rich
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Milan Zamazal" <pdm brailcom org>
> To: <orca-list gnome org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:06 PM
> Subject: [orca-list] Reading texts in Firefox/XUL applications
>
>
> According to Firefox developers, Firefox shouldn't provide caret
> browsing of texts in applications and it should be solely screen
> reader's job to read the text, including navigation over lines and
> reading single characters (see their response to the following Firefox
> bugs: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399059
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=399158).
>
> So the question is: Can Orca provide the necessary functions for reading
> long and/or difficult to understand texts in Firefox applications or are
> there any plans to make Orca improvements in this area?
>
> Regards,
>
> Milan Zamazal
>
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