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Re: A comment on NetworkManager

On Thu, 11 May 2006, Russell Harrison wrote:


must remember to hit "reply to all"


:-)

While we're accreting wish lists, let me add mine:

  1) NM should to be able to manage keys and protocols (including WPA
and WPA-2, given that WEP is pretty much useless no matter how many bits
it has:-) without having to unlock the keyring.  I know the
key-unlocking problem will soon be solved "outside" of NM per se, but
hey, the WEP key for myssid is preserved in e.g.

 .gconf/system/networking/wireless/networks/myssid,

with the WEP key written (of course) in plaintext.  For most
non-paranoid people in most default account configurations this whole
tree is by default 644/755 top to bottom so anybody on the system can
read it.  Which makes me REALLY wonder why NM bothers using the keyring
-- the data isn't encrypted or otherwise effectively hidden in the first
place.

  2) NM needs to be able to have NM remember networks with no broadcast
SSID once they are entered so that one doesn't have to go through the
custom network interface every time.  The WEP key is already stored on
the system where anybody can read it, but when I select "connect to
other wireless networks" the first time after logging in I seem to have
to enter it before the connect button becomes active.  It would also be
nice to have a GUI list of other wireless networks ssids pop up at this
point to click on instead of requiring typewriter entry of the ssid, and
make the "create new wireless network" action a menu choice on this
interface.

  3) indeed, what NM needs is a full featured SSID table manager
interface (a "manage SSIDs" menu entry to replace both the connect and
create entries that are there now) that permits the user to fully manage
and customize the table of SSIDs.  In addition to WEP/WPA information
any given SSID needs to be markeable at LEAST as:
   - whitelist (always connect to strongest signal available in order of
a user-defined priority that overrides signal strength).
   - blacklist (always ignore, never connect, do not even SHOW ever
again except in the SSID table manager interface once they are marked
out in the working table). This can easily/consistently be done with a
single file in .gconf/.../wireless/network, e.g.:
 <blacklist>
   <essid>essid1</essid>
   <essid>essid2</essid>
   ...
 </blacklist>
   - greylist controls, e.g. show/don't show greylist connections as
available in the left-click applet popup (they'll always be in the table
manager interface), connect/don't connect to greylist connections
without a deliberate user action (like answering "ok" in a popup).

Basically, 98% or more of my wireless connections are to one of three
SSIDs, one of which is not broadcast.  70% of the time I'm connecting to
my home network, the one with the non-broadcast SSID.  I want to be able
to tell my system to ALWAYS ignore the six or seven broadcast SSIDs it
ALWAYS sees at boot time at home and to ALWAYS look for the network with
the hidden non-broadcast SSID and connect to it FIRST if it is there, to
NEVER ask for a password or make me manually manipulate keys after the
primary key entry to (re)connect, and yet to be able to transparently
re-connect to a greylist broadcast SSID open interface if I should close
my laptop and go to a wi-fi cafe somewhere for a cup of coffee, with or
without a message asking if it should connect as I choose to configure.

Automatic means not manual.  The applet/popup GUI on NM is nice and
permits one to perform many actions without having to type in low level
commands but NM itself is not terribly automatic even for things that
have to be done over and over again exactly the same way -- where it IS
automatic it nearly always does the wrong thing, at least for me, so I
end up having to manipulate it to get correctly connected nearly every
time I connect.  NM is clearly CAPABLE of doing what it needs to do for
all categories of interface -- all it lacks is a higher-level interface
where repetitive tasks can be categorized and response sequences
predefined so that they can be avoided in the future.

Basically, manipulation should only be necessary ONE TIME per network
one sees -- blacklist and then DONE (for those essids, never ever see
them again in a toplevel interface), greylist (configure?) and DONE,
whitelist (configure) and DONE -- where no essid or NM itself is ever
"touched" again in that connection context unless/until one wants to do
something unusual or a key changes.

   rgb



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Russell Harrison <rtlm10 gmail com>
Date: May 10, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: A comment on NetworkManager
To: Peter Roediger <p roediger gmail com>

Very well written.  I'd like to second everything you've said.
NetworkManager is very frustrating to work with.  I only use it because I
feel like its got some real potential and somebody needs to find the bugs.
I am continually in a love hate relationship with the "simplicity" of the
interface.  Right now its so simple I don't see how any layperson could
understand it, there just isn't any feed back or direction, and the things
you expect to see aren't there.

Profiles are a big thing for me since I want to be able to deploy laptops on
our network and configure them by installing an rpm.  Its so much cleaner
than creating a bunch of documentation, to tell them how to set it up
themselves.  That's confusing, they don't need to know what authentication
mechanism we use, or even care what the network is named.  They just want to
be on it.

What the NetworkManager team is doing is exceptional.  I'm very impressed at
how far they've come already. (trust me I've been playing with this thing
for a long time)  I applaud the effort to make its interface clean and
simple for the layperson.  There does need to be a "advanced" mode however.
We need a way for administrators to configure it without touching the
interface.

On 5/10/06, Peter Roediger <p roediger gmail com> wrote:


Hi everyone,


I thought I should write a little -personal- comment on what I think about
the current implementation of NetworkManager and, more importantly, its
design goals. First of all, I'm very pleased to see that there is some
effort going on to make a linux desktop more user-friendly in terms of
network usage and managing more than one network device in more than one
(wireless) network. So far, NetworkManager looks to me like a very good
approach to it, though it has some, in my view, major shortcomings which I'd
like to address in this mail.

1.) Wireless networks list.
There is no "Search for wireless networks" or "Refresh wireless networks
list" button/option in the applet. While this seems to be convenient in the
first place it turns out to be not in some cases. Consider this: Many
laptops nowadays feature an LED that shows the status of the wireless
connection ( e.g. flashing when it's not connected, etc.). Thus people will
naturally switch the wireless network off when it's not needed. Then, they
might disconnect their wired LAN at one point and go to some place that is
supplied by a wireless network. Now, they turn on their wireless network
card by a hardware switch and...they have to wait. They have to wait until
NM will update the list. Which will take some time. The average user will
not understand this behavior. But the average user would understand an
option mentioned above. It's easy. Easier than a WEP key.
Or something else: You walk around in a foreign city in order to find a
hotspot to logon to. There is a desperate need to update the list
immediately. It's simply crucial.

2.) The configuration issue.
In my view NetworkManager is one of the most intransparent linux
applications out there. There's no Documentation (correct me if I'm wrong),
there is no configuration file easily accessible and there are weird things
going on with resolv.conf. How is it configured? How can I change the DNS
server without violating "# generated by NetworkManager, do not edit!"? Do I
have to use a special program to set this up? If so, then just write it down
at some place. I've been using Linux for 5 years now and having problems to
set up basic things with an application that is supposed to be a snap to
use.

3.) Profiles.
I know, you don't like them. You think, they are an inconvenient user
experience. Well, while I understand your pursuit of simplicity i don't
really get what is so bad about profiles. You could present the user with
some sort of a default profile. No further setting up is required. It just
uses the settings specified in /etc/network/interfaces as usual. On the
other hand, there are A LOT of people who use their laptop at home and at
work or at the uni or wherever. And in those places there is no dhcp
available in many cases. So what is so evil about letting the user create
profiles so he can easily switch to the appropriate one? That is something
so many criticize about Windows: They always have to change their network
settings. Every day. That is not even close to "user-friendly". And again:
With a bit of explaining the average user will indeed be able to set up
profiles. If he is capable of changing the network settings every day, he'll
be capable of creating profiles. For sure.
And it's just so useful.

To summarize this, NetworkManager works very well in many cases. But as this
whole program is designed to work on a laptop there are important features
missing. As this is still version 0.6.x I of course cannot expect a
perfectly working, full-featured application. But by looking at your design
goals, my concern is that you will not be implementing essential things just
for the sake of (over-)simplicity. As Einstein said: "Everything should be
made as simply as possible, but not simpler".
This is going to be a great application, but it should be feature-complete.
It's relatively easy to hide more complicated things in an "Advanced..."
menu or something like that. But dropping features just because the 85-year
old grandma will not understand what it is, is not the right way out.

Cheers, Peter


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--
Robert G. Brown	                       http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/
Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305
Durham, N.C. 27708-0305
Phone: 1-919-660-2567  Fax: 919-660-2525     email:rgb phy duke edu
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