Re: Using mc via telnet

[Pavel Machek <pavel ucw cz>]

Hi!

> > > Yes.  "Learn Keys" is just a cheap substitute to making the keys work as
> > > they are described in terminfo and/or termcap.
> >
> > I don't call it "cheap"!  I call it an EXCELLENT feature!!!
> > I wish more applications would follow this route.
>
> Incidentally, I have been thinking about it.  It is clear for me that the
> terminfo standard doesn't solve all problems present in termcap.  What MC
> actually does is an attempt to work around deficiencies of the terminfo
> standards, not just "bugs" in the terminfo database.
>
> The terminfo relies solely on the TERM variable, which is actually not so
> reliable.  On my pretty standard RedHat 7.1, both xterm and rxvt set
> TERM=xterm by default.  And yet F1 sends "\eOP" on xterm and "\e[11~" on
> rxvt.
>
> If you look in mc.lib, you will find that some keys are defined more than
> once to work with different terminals with the same TERM.  This is not
> allowed in terminfo definitions (as far as I know).
>
> More definitions are added "behind the scenes", in the code, because even
> the format of mc.lib is not sufficient to express the rules.  So, for
> example, "\eOP" is added as another definition of F1 if $TERM begins with
> "xterm".
>
> Another problem is that if you are running telnet in xterm and you have a
> working connection back from the remote host to your X server, it is a
> different situation than when the X connection is not available (i.e. you
> are behind firewall).  MC compiled with X events support can distinguish
> Ctrl-M and Enter in the first case, but not in the second.
>
> Finally, there is no way to describe in terminfo keys with modifiers e.g.
> the sequence for Shift-Home.  Yet it's well defined and unique in rxvt.
>
> If you want to share the "Learn Keys" code with other applications, it
> means establishing a standard.  For a standard to succeed, it must be very
> good (or you should have influence of software vendors, which is not the
> case).
>
> I think that "Learn Keys" is not sufficient for even MC itself.  Run MC in
> xterm and try selecting text in the editor with Shift-arrows.  It doesn't
> work?  Now go to "Learn Keys".  The Shift-arrows are not there.  They are
> not in terminfo either.
>
> Terminfo is good if you don't want to use your terminal to the maximum
> extent possible.  But if you want to use any keys in any combination
> allowed by your hardware, terminfo is too restrictive.
>
> What MC is doing now is creating a "better terminfo" with support for
> multiple sequences per key, new keys combinations and support for data
> from the sources other that the terminal (X11 events, linux specific
> ioctl).
>
> Another solution would be creating a new terminal client-server protocol
> and designing both the terminal (a reference terminal) and the screen
> library in the same time.  I believe it's a much cleaner approach.

I do not think this has chance of succeeding.

That protocol already exists. Its called X. Its better terminal
protocol. Oops, it includes graphics ;-).
                                                                Pavel
-- 
I'm pavel ucw cz  "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care."
Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at discuss linmodems org