Re: Localized Pages

[Christian Rose <menthos menthos com>]

Mark Koopman wrote:

> > How about making the language selection automatic, like discussed
> > previously?
>
> I guess it sounds like there is such a mixed opinion on whether or not 
> to show localized pages right away, but since it's been pointed out,
> opinionisticly, that most people learn computers in English,

I think this isn't entirely true. The people on this list are very 
fluent in English, but I don't think making conclusions on all the 
future gnome.org visitors based on the preferences of the people on this 
list is fair. I still think most people wants information in their own 
language when such translations exist.
That is even more true for the people visiting gnome.org - I think it is 
wrong to assume that all people visiting gnome.org are already skilled 
UNIX or Linux users or GNOME users for that matter. gnome.org should be 
attracting to new, potential users too. And "hiding" translations isn't 
very attractive to international users.


And the argument that "most people learn computers in English" is a very 
stupid one to me.

Since everybody counted on their fingers before, there doesn't have to 
be calculators.
Since everybody programmed their computers with punch cards, there 
didn't have to be better interfaces or magnetic storage.
Since everybody used a command line, there was no need for graphical UIs.
Since everybody used to learn computers in English, there is no need for 
internationalisation.

Just something to think about...


And that "most people" learn computers in English isn't true either. 
Here, that statement is true for the most part in higher education. But 
*not at all* in basic computer education - that is, computer education 
in everything that isn't college or academia - there, all education is 
with localised software.

My parents are GNOME users. The only reason they are is because I set it 
up for them. They don't have any special computer requirements, just 
being able to do some simple word processing, surf the web and monitor 
the stocks, and be able to play an occasional game of solitaire or 
mahjongg is enough for them. So I figured out that I could as well 
install Linux and GNOME on their box instead of Windows, it doesn't 
matter to them.

They both learned basic computer usage from an evening-class in computer 
usage, they've never used computers before that. They don't speak or 
understand English very well - in fact my dad gets so confused if there 
are English strings in an application that he will, for example, spend 
several minutes trying to close a program if the exit menu entry should 
be in English.
It's the same when they use the web. They don't use it very often, and 
when they do, they stay away from pages in English when possible, just 
because trying to read that should take for ever to them. They almost 
exclusively use local sites.

My dad is as unexperienced as a web user as he as a computer user. He 
just gets that clicking on something that looks like links will take him 
to other pages - but he is often reluctant to do that. Why, I don't 
know. Maybe because he is afraid of changing something and not being 
able to go back (he usually forgets about the back button it seems).

So what is my point with this? Well, if my dad would have gone to the 
GNOME site to read about what GNOME was, and that page was displayed in 
English as default, he would have chosen not to read it. He would 
*never* have realized that he could get a localized page by clicking on 
a link somewhere. That is why I think making it translated by default is 
so important - to help users that are both novice users and not fluent 
with English.


> I guess i'm just trying to think of a KISS (keep-it-simple-stupid)
> solution.

I think web pages should be designed for users, not for web page 
developers. That's why I think the KISS metaphor should apply to 
usability, not implementation. The KISS solution in usability here would 
be not to force users to make a choice when we already, in most cases, 
know the answer to that choice (the user's preference).


Christian