De : Felipe Erias Morandeira <femorandeira igalia com>
À : gnome-shell-list gnome org
Envoyé le : Mer 30 Décembre 2009, 11 h 51 min 41 s
Objet : Re: interapplication communication
You are suggesting a task bar/window list/dock, even if you don't want
to say it. The visual appearance and user experience is obviously open
to debate, but at the end of the day we want a way to have all windows
in the current activity displayed together, so switching to a certain
one is just a matter of point and click. Yeah, every other system has
something like that and we want GNOME Shell to be different... but have
we
considered that maybe they all have it because it makes sense? Isn't
switching between open windows one of the major use cases of a modern
desktop system?
There's no doubt that the message tray, the favourites well or the
recent documents list are important pieces of functionality. But again I
have to ask, are they more important than switching between open
windows? I personally use neither of the former functionalities in my
daily life, but I surely do switch a lot between windows. It could be
that I am an atypical user, but in any case I would suggest that we
study how people are using their computers right now and try to provide
a solution that at least is not more cumbersome for the most common use
cases.
Felipe
Sam Illingworth wrote:
> Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but with it being automatic (maybe
> that could be an option?) I like the idea of now having a seperate
state
> for minimized widows and just making the window manager arrange them so
> teyre out of the way. If there wasn't room to shrink them to a side of
> the screen it could push them off the side a bit.
>
>
>
>
> On 29 Dec 2009, at 09:22 PM, Rovanion Luckey <
rovanion luckey gmail com>
> wrote:
>
>> Minimizing windows does not work at the moment, they simply disappear
>> and that's confusing even for me. The stereotypical mom using gnome
>> shell will think that the minimize button closed her application.
>>
>> What if pressing the minimize button made the window become small and
>> hide on free desktop space, space not obscured by any window. I am not
>> sure what would happend if all desktop space was to be obscured,
a
>> pretty normal situation I suppose on a small screen. Should the
>> minimized window then take their hideout on the top shell panel? Just
>> showing the lower bottom of the window or maybe it's icon, and moused
>> over the window would become larger and come out of the shell panel.
>>
>> Tough that's a bit like a taskbar. Maybe you would have the lower
>> right corner to show windows on the current activity. Just as the top
>> left corner shows activities.
>>
>> 2009/12/29 Samuel Arthur Wright Illingworth <
mazz0 mazz0 com>:
>>> Ooooh, I love that idea! I was just gonna suggest a hot corner that
>>> arranges all the windows on the current workspace, like they get
>>> arranged in
>>> the activities overlay, but without zooming
out.
>>> One thing I will say though - Owen, you say you're dead set against
>>> having a
>>> static list of the existing windows, but I for one need a visual
>>> reminder of
>>> what windows I've got open for the current activity - it helps focus
>>> my mind
>>> on what I'm doing, what information I have available to me, what I
>>> need to
>>> do next, etc. It's also an instant and predictable way of finding the
>>> window you want - if something pops up or is arranged dynamically
>>> (like a
>>> hidden alt-tab style dock or Scale style action) you have to wait and
>>> look
>>> to find where the window you want is.
>>> OK, here's an idea (not thought about it much): how about we get rid
>>> of the
>>> minimize button, and replace it with a
don't-minimize button. Any
>>> window
>>> that's not got don't-minimize ticked will minimize automatically when
>>> you
>>> select another window. But when minimized, it will actually shrink
>>> into a
>>> thumbnail on whichever edge of the screen (left, bottom or right) has
>>> the
>>> most space (so they can be as big as possible), depending where the
>>> active
>>> window is. Because it visually shrinks down you know where it is.
>>> If the
>>> active window gets too big so the thumbnails would have to shrink
>>> down tiny
>>> to be visible then they'll start to be covered by the active window
>>> and only
>>> come on top on mouse over. When maximized they won't be visible. To
>>> see
>>> two windows side by
side, unminimized, you can click the don't minimize
>>> button on one of them (although having some Windows 7 style side-by-side
>>> thingy would be handy too).
>>> I'm sure that there are lots of problems with that idea, but meh.
>>>
>>> 2009/12/29 Johannes Schmid <
jhs jsschmid de>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Owen!
>>>>
>>>>> In terms of this week and last week, most of the full time GNOME shell
>>>>> developers are on vacation, and in some cases entirely away from
>>>>> computers. Yes, we don't post enough here even at other times.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I wasn't expecting any updates during X-mas but this
>>>> discussion has been on the mailing list in different threads for
>>>>
quite a
>>>> long time. And this discussion doesn't result in anything unless people
>>>> doing the work will lead it in some direction.
>>>>
>>>>> Once you are done working through that exercise, the result doesn't
>>>>> look
>>>>> much like the current GNOME Shell; you've lost most of the things that
>>>>> are distinctive about the current GNOME Shell design, and the
>>>>> result, it
>>>>> seems to me, would look pretty much like other current desktops.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, the goal of GNOME Shell isn't to be something radically new and
>>>>> different, it's to be a great user interface for GNOME 3, so maybe
>>>>> we'll
>>>>> need to go ahead and make a big switch to something more
conventional;
>>>>> maybe the current ideas just aren't right. But we definitely want to
>>>>> finish our current design ideas and get some experience with users
>>>>> before we make such a move. (The message tray is probably the last
>>>>> large
>>>>> remaining piece; we're hoping to get that landed next week.)
>>>>
>>>> Sure, user feedback is probably the most important point. (One of the
>>>> reasons that I didn't post here before having used gnome-shell for a
>>>> while).
>>>> Regarding the task list I am all against a button panel but I still
>>>> thinnk there needs to be a fast way to change the window (not
>>>> essentially the same as the task) using mouse only without the overlay.
>>>> If you read the archive you will see a lot of post
dicussion various
>>>> ideas because people are very used to it, even those power-user
>>>> keyboards freaks.
>>>>
>>>> Just another idea that poped into my mind: What about having the
>>>> alt-tab
>>>> chooser as kind of dock that pops up when you move the mouse to the
>>>> buttom of the screen?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> Johannes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-26 Reiner Jung wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess these discussions can become somewhat cumbersome for
>>>>>>> developers,
>>>>>>> because they are largely on the same topics. I think it would be
>>>>>>> helpful
>>>>>>> to distill a set of
use-cases and a set of solutions for these use
>>>>>>> cases
>>>>>>> on the basis of gnome-shell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest that we collect ideas on this list for problems we have
>>>>>>> determined and send them our proposals. But to get features into the
>>>>>>> shell we should not only propose them, but try to convince the
>>>>>>> developers to like them (so they implement them).
>>>>>
>>>>> Two things I'd encourage:
>>>>>
>>>>> - When documenting problems, be exceedingly specific; don't say
>>>>> "the new Alt-Tab makes it hard to switch between windows of
>>>>> an application" rather say "When I'm writing an email in
an
>>>>> Evolution composer window and want to switch back to the
>>>>> main Evolution window to look at another message for reference,
>>>>> I often find myself ending up in a different application"
>>>>> (or even more detail)
>>>>>
>>>>> Generalization from a specific problem to a generic problem often
>>>>> involves making an assumption about how the situation is best
>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> - The most interesting thing at the current time are incremental
>>>>> ideas - how could the ideas of the shell be extended or reworked
>>>>> to make them better? Such ideas are more interesting
than
>>>>> complaints about how the shell isn't working. And they are
>>>>> more interesting than ideas that are massive changes in direction.
>>>>>
>>>>> If these ideas can be expressed in a few words that's better.
>>>>> IF they can be expressed visually, even better.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2009-12-27 at 00:33 +0100, Johannes Schmid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I created a page in the wiki, it lacks the solutions currently
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> has to be filled with more data of course:
>>>>>>
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/UseCases>>>>>
>>>>> This page doesn't seem helpful in
the current form; "Netbook" and
>>>>> "Desktop Computer" are exceedingly general. Depending on how I'm using
>>>>> my desktop computer, there are likely hundreds of pros to the current
>>>>> GNOME Shell design and hundreds of cons.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to have a way of documenting "points of frustration" -
>>>>> what the
>>>>> user was doing (very specifically) and how the shell was failing. But
>>>>> I'm not really sure the best place to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> - They might get lost in the noise in the mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> - Wikis aren't very good for discussion
>>>>>
>>>>> - Bugzilla might be the best fit, but I'm reluctant to have bugs in
>>>>> Bugzilla
that don't correspond to clear tasks - a patch to review,
>>>>> a specific change to make to match up with a mockup, a crash, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll discuss this some with Jon when we are both back from vacation
>>>>> and
>>>>> we'll see if we can come up with a good procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gnome-shell-list mailing list
>>>>
gnome-shell-list gnome org>>>>
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sam Illingworth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnome-shell-list mailing list
>>>
gnome-shell-list gnome org>>>
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.twitter.com/Rovanion>> Steam: Rovanion
>> MSN:
rovanion luckey gmail com>>
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