Re: Are these "troubles" due to RedHat 8 or Gnome 2 ?

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 11:37, Geoffrey wrote:
> Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 10:54, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>I'm an Enlightenment user and with gnome2, there's no longer 
> >>compatibility, thus I'll be looking at dumping Gnome, rather then 
> >>accepting the reduction in functionality.
> > 
> > 
> > This is Enlightenment's fault for not following updated standards,
> > iirc.  I suggest you point Enlightenment's developers over to
> >, or switch to a window manager intended to work with a
> > desktop environment.  You can't expect gnome to hold back on adding new
> > features that require newer _standard_ WM specs just because of l337
> > users that "need" exotic WM's...  Even if for whatever reason Metacity
> > or the newer Sawfish do not have enough weird and useless features for
> > you, plenty of other WM's have already incorporated the newer standards
> > and work fine.  And, as a final note, as Enlightenment is becoming it's
> > own desktop shell, it will make itself incompatible with gnome/kde (this
> > taken from the Enlightenment website).
> Enlightenment folks are working 17, thus 16.5 won't see any further 
> development.  Whether e17 does the stuff or not, I don't 
> know.  So maybe e17 will provide the functionality I lost with Gnome2, good.

Yes, understood.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are patches 
floating around for 16.5.  Perhaps Google will find you something.

> My argument is not so much with the issues with E and gnome as it is 
> with gnome not providing an interface to easily change wm, so be it, 
> ones that support the standards.

I think Iain quite clearly stated why this is stupid.  But as I've
heard, GNOME2.2 will have a wonderful WM capplet for letting new users
break their setup.

> Slamming E for having 'weird and useless features' is a cop out anyway. 
>   If you've got nothing to add to the issue, you can save your baseless 
> opinions for yourself.  For me, it's not an issue of 'kewl' features.  I 
> use Linux for my development work, so I'm not looking for something 
> pretty, but something functional.  E and gnome 1.2, gave me that nice 
> meld of functionality, Gnome2 with any other wm does not.

Changing the WM isn't something most people need, and anyone who knows
what a WM is and knows enough of UNIX to think they need one different
than the GNOME2 default, can easily use gconf-editor or the one-line of
shell commands to change their WM.  The people that can't do that are
the people that need to be protected from breaking their configuration
thru a convenient "Swap out a core and integrated part of your desktop
with something that wont be so conveniently controlled since it most
likely doesn't use the gconf keys for wm/key-control/theme you may have
configured elsewhere" (WM Chooser) capplet.

> Forget about E, let's talk about Gnome.  What I see of Gnome 2 is less 
> functionality, fewer applets.  So, is this growth?  I think not.  I 
> think Gnome 2 came out before it was ready, cause KDE is so kickass. 
> Personally I don't like the look of kde, but it's got better 
> functionality then Gnome.

Yes, it's lots of growth.  It's removal of crack.  Less bloat.  Easier
configuration.  Most the gnome1 applets weren't needed, and even some of
the GNOME2 applets should really be remove imho (we all know how much a
corporate desktop needs wanda or geyes).  KDE just keeps getting bigger
and bigger and bigger - so if the only good growth is the metaphorical
equivalent of putting on 400 lbs. of pure fat, then sure, KDE rules. 
GNOME2 is more like GNOME after spending a year in the gym, replacing
flub (pointless applets/apps, crack confusing config options, etc.) with
_lean_, fast, powerful muscle.

> -- 
> Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric 3times25 net
> I didn't have to buy my radio from a specific company to listen
> to FM, why doesn't that apply to the Internet (anymore...)?
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