Re: Red Carpet 0.9 beta

[Ian Peters <itp ximian com>]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 01:50:25PM -0800, Matt Nelson wrote:
> > If you installed all of these packages without using --force --nodeps,
> > then it is a bug in red carpet, and I would very much appreciate a bug
> > report (bugzilla.ximian.com).
> > 
> > If you did install them by forcing them onto your system, then you do
> > need to either a) satisfy dependencies, or b) add fake entries to your
> > rpm database.
> 
> IMNSHO, this is a bug in Red Carpet.  Just for fun, I ran red-carpet
> and asked it to update "gnucash".  It claimed that the following packages
> are "necessary removals":
> 
>    kapm
>    kdebase-3d-screensavers
>    kdevelop
>    kpilot
>    kpppload
>    quake2
>    xmorph
>
> >From a user standpoint this makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.  I don't care HOW I
> installed these RPMS, I refuse to believe that upgrading gnucash requires
> that I remove quake2.
> 
> And, in fact, I know that what red-carpet is telling me is NOT TRUE.  I
> can, and have, upgraded gnucash without removing ANY packages.
> 
> The fact is that red-carpet is WRONG.  These packages do not NEED to be
> removed in order to upgrade the selected package.  The fact that
> red-carpet thinks so simply means that its logic is incorrect.  It is a
> bug.  Plain and simple.  You are delusional if you think otherwise.
> 
> Telling people 
> 
>   "If you did install them by forcing them onto your system,
>   then you do need to either a) satisfy dependencies, or b) add fake
>   entries to your rpm database." 
> 
> is like telling a Windows user "if you installed this software without
> using InstallShield, you will need to manually edit your registry and add
> the required 73 entries".

Matt,

I understand your points, although I do find your hostility somewhat
surprising.

Here's the facts, to the best of my understanding.

Red Carpet is currently very zealous in pursuing dependency problems.
Anytime tou attempt to complete a transaction, it attempts to resolve
your entire dependency graph before proceding.  We're looking at
altering this behaviour for the next release early next week, to only
resolve those portions of the graph that will be directly altered by
the requested operations.

The fact remains, however, that Red Carpet doesn't tell you to remove
things unless they have unresolved dependencies.  No matter how many
words you write in capital letters, it won't change the fact that you
have packages installed on your system which, according to the rpm
database, don't have their dependencies satisfied.

We're aware of the fact that Red Carpet could tell the user more about
why their system is broken; we've recieved a number of helpful bug
reports from users requesting this feature.  Hopefully we'll have
better explanations in place by 0.9.1.  In the meantime, I suggest you
figure out why your system has broken dependencies.  The rpm client
itself, while unwieldy, can help you track this down.  I suggest you
look into the --requires and --whatprovides options to help you.

If you are a power user, and if you know that you have installed a
library or program by hand which is not registered into the RPM
database, the correct answer is to manually update the database with a
record describing the software you installed yourself.  I'm sorry this
isn't as easy as you'd like, but that's what comes along with being a
power user.

So, we'll try to let Red Carpet be a little more lax about fixing the
problems on your system, but that doesn't change the fact that
portions of your system are broken.  :-(

-- 
Ian Peters      "...it is 5 am and the sun has charred the other
itp gnu org      side of the earth and come back to us and painted
itp ximian com   the smoke over our heads an imperial violet..."