Re: Some things GNOME really needs

[Paul <paulv cinternet net>]

Robert Roeser [roeser@engr.orst.edu] said:
> 2. Not all linux distros have package systems, and GNOME isn't only for
> Linux it is for all flavors of UNIX, which don't all have rpms

True. But you can install rpm on those systems if you need to.

> 3. Theses package system were made to used from the CLI, and for Linux
> users. NOT for people who are used to Windoze, or macs. Now some would
> argue that we don't want them etc. But I thought the goal of the GNOME
> project was to make Linux easier to use for all, and to hopefully make it
> easier for the common person to use, ie Win and Mac users.

One of the goals of the GNOME project was to make linux easier to use
for people, yes. But it clearly isn't for everyone, yet.

The ideal situation, IMHO, would be for distrobutions to ship with
GNOME, and have it installed by default so that people don't need to
worry about downloading it. Updates are still a problem, but this is a
work in progress.

> 4. Will I use GnoRPM, I know that is it less still to hard for the common
> user. I set my Family up a linux server for our DSL, and my Dad had to
> install something one day. It took longer then it should of. Nifty install
> program would have ben nice. (i was at school, and couldn't log into the
> machine :(

Linux isn't ready to kill off all the other OSes.

> 5. Gnome is modular so the "install wizard" in theory could use pieces of
> other programs so you wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. End users need
> to
> be walked though installs. I get the feeling that most Linux users forget
> this, or at least some.

No, people don't read. There are man pages and there are README files
and there are FAQs and there are howtos. 

> 6. Tke kernel has a graphical install program, albeit that you have to
> type in make, etc. That is were I first thought about the idea for a
> gui interface for compiling. Programs could come with a script called
> 'setup' or install, like has been suggested and when ran it would compile
> it would pop up a little window, and lead the user through the rest of the
> install. If the script was in perl it could run on all flavors of Unix in
> GNOME. This would be simpiler IHMO for an end user. All the do is double
> click on install, and wham it installs...

Unpacking, and typing 'install' is just as difficult as typing
'make;make install', imho. And people need to *read* to check the
dependancies. 

> 7. To make Linux and Unix easy to use you have to add things that most
> linux users find silly, and useless, and keep them simple. Wizard my have
> been a bad choice of words, I was thinking about a universal
> installalation intface for Gnome that would walk end users through
> installing programs in a simple and start forward way.

I find Linux very easy to use. I don't recommend Linux to Joe Random off
the street. It isn't ready for that yet.

> So here was the the way I thought the program could work. user goes the
> control panel, and selects the install new program option. The window in
> the right pops up and ask him if its rpm, dep, xyz, or tar.gz. Then user
> selects which on it is and hits next. Then he points the install program
> to the directory where the program is located, hits next. If the user
> picks tar.gz file it looks for the install script, and runs it. Etc...

So the way i thought it would work is the user gets the tarball of the
internet and opens it using zcat <filename>.tar.gz | tar xvf - in a
gnome-terminal window. Then he goes to that directory and types
'make;make install'(or 'make all' or something like that that does both
a make and make install[make install might do this, btw, i've never
looked]). 

> ps. The only time I have used rpm -Uvh --force --nodeps was to upgrade
> Gnome from version .99.8 something to 1.0 something, and it works fine, In
> fact I am writing this e-mail for the vary machine that I did it too and
> it didn't break the system. 

*Every* time i've used --force and --nodeps it has broken
something. I don't like rpms at all. And i don't trust any that aren't
PGP signed.

-- 
Paul Visscher                                        paulv@cinternet.net
Systems Administrator
Cinternet, Inc.
513.891.1228