Re: OLE Discussion (was Re: Opendoc)

[Dale Pontius <NeOdSgPeAhMp together net>]

Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> 
> > If you are so impressed by OLE2, then take a serious look at SOM, DSOM
> > and Opendoc. It goes far behind OLE and does most things
> > better.
> 
> I am not so sure OpenDoc does `most things' better.  When I read IBM's
> tutorials on OpenDoc they basically used the following arguments:
> 
>         - OpenDoc is based on CORBA which is superior to COM.
>         - OpenDoc supports shaped embedded applications.
> 
> >From the above two points: we are going to use CORBA, so the first
> `technical advantage' of opendoc over ole can be pretty much ignored.
> As for having shaped embedded windows:  I see how they can be useful
> in a limited number of applications but nothing really important.
> Anyways, if we need it, we can add it later.

Granted the CORBA vs COM aspect, since CORBA is already a part of
GNOME. I never saw a shaped window, and don't see it as a compelling
advantage.

Other than Cyberdog, OpenDoc never really got a chance to show itself,
but everything I've heard about Cyberdog said it was great.

The other thing to visit is a matter of philosophy. Back when OLE vs
OpenDoc was worth debating, there appeared to be a subtle, but
fundamental difference between them. I don't know if it was driven
by the capabilities of the underlying systems, or by the controllers
of the two systems... But OLE2 appeared to be oriented toward letting
big, hulking applications expose there capabilities to other programs,
and let other programs plug themselves into those big mongers. OpenDoc
appeared to be oriented toward eliminating the big, hulking applications
in favor of smaller components that work together. 

In another way of looking at it, OpenDoc was document-centric, where the
document itself was what you invoked, and appropriate components were
called under-the-covers for the pieces of that document. In the OLE2
world, you fire up Word, and imbed something from Excel.

This may have been only a matter of emphasis by the principles. Perhaps
OpenDoc was more oriented to the big hulkers, just not sold that way.
Perhaps OLE2 is more appropriate to small document-centric, but billed
as a way of selling more big MS applications.

But the small-component document centric approach is worth investigating
further. Besides that, small components lend themselves better to Linux-
style distributed development. (As long as interfaces are clear, where
CORBA helps some.)

(Repeated plug for IronDoc. Not many people have hindsight on the whole
 compound document biz, and even fewer have been willing to share their
 experience. David McKusker has offered the IronDoc specification for
 public viewing, based on his original work on Bento storage for
OpenDoc.
 It's certainly worth learning from.)

Dale Pontius