Re: property dialogs

[Toshio Kuratomi <badger prtr-13 ucsc edu>]

On Thu, 19 Mar, 1998 at 11:35:25AM -0700, Paul Hepworth set free these words:
> > > Tim Small's "Apply/Apply+Close/Close" buttons.  I agree that these are
> > > less confusing than "OK/Apply/Cancel".
> > > 
> > I don't know:  I've gotten quite used to Ok/Apply/Cancel meaning
> >                                 Apply+Close/Apply/Close
> > Changing things like this just has a vaguely wrong feeling in the pit of
> > one's stomach.  It's kinda like when I was still using MS products and I
> > used DOS edit all the time alongside Windows apps.  Cut-and-paste keys
> > were
> > different and Quit/Exit were different.  And that just wasn't right....
> > 
> You have got to be kidding!  Ok/Apply/Cancel is simply WRONG.  I don't care
> how many other systems use illogical, mislabeled buttons; it's still WRONG.
> Gnome should not follow suit; we have the opportunity to do things right.
> 
That's so ethnocentric it reminds me of microsoft!  :-)

Unlike talking about the layout of the buttons, where there are definite
visual clues to say "This is grouped with this; this is grouped with that"
we're talking here about language.  And language is a dynamic entity which
has different meanings depending on context.  In the context of property
dialogs, "Ok/Apply/Cancel" is right (after you've learned the new meanings.)

I'm not arguing that this is wrong/confusing for new users (because it is a
redefinition of the English words "Ok" "Apply" and "Cancel") but once people
have gotten used to it, the words have this other meaning Ok=Apply+Close,
Apply=Apply, Cancel=Close.

So maybe we want to make this more sensible to first time users by writing
what we really mean in english.  That's great, fine, and I wish someone'd done
that before I learned these other definitions.  The fact remains that many
people will have to unlearn one set of definitions and then learn a new way.
There should be expected a minimal bit of resistance to that... but if it's
right, hey then, we should do it so our grandchildren don't suffer under the
same archaic burden, right?

Related topic: Someone proposed using the internationalization facilities to
deal with issues like these.  Being able to Translate from a "C" locale into
an "ms" or "mac" locale might be interesting.  Anyone have some thoughts on
this?

-Toshio
-- 
badger  \"The Difference between today and yesterday is not so much what has
@prtr-13 \ changed between then and now as what I hope to change by tomorrow."
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