Re: Getting started with is too hard.

[robert havoc pennington <rhpennin midway uchicago edu>]

On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Nigel Tamplin wrote:
> 
> So I decided to compile Gnome from the source, however when trying to
> retreive via CVS all I get lots of messages from the cvs server saying
> it is updating xyz.  And when the checkout is complete it appears that
> most of the source tree is missing.
> 

Did you use checkout or update? You want cvs -z9 checkout gnome-libs or
something like that (easiest to put the -z9 option in your .cvsrc, then
you can omit it).  Then once you've checked out, you want something like
cvs -z9 update -Pd, where "P" means prune obsolete directories and "d"
means create new ones. 

> My point being is that I have spent more than a few hours trying to get
> gnome compiled and running.
>

If you're doing it all, that's how long it takes from scratch, unless you
have a T1 and some serious CPU. Gnome is big. Mico alone can take that
long.
 
> I am now turning to this list and asking:
> 
> "I have a standard (except a libc upgrade) installation of Red Hat Linux
> 4.2, what is the easiest way of getting Gnome up and running?"
>

I don't know about this. I'd guess compiling since the rpms are likely
libc6 (?). Or just upgrade to 5.0. I use Debian, so I'm not sure.
 
> I wonder how many people have failed to get Gnome up and running with a
> couple of hours and given up on it?
>

You just can't do it this fast now. Remember that Gnome is development
software. It's not a public beta, or even close, except for a few
components.
 
> I think it is important that the getting started documentation be
> improved so that Gnome is more accessible and people don't "give up" on
> Gnome after failing to get it up and running.
>

I agree. It will be much easier, though, once there's a real public
release. Among other things it won't be necessary to run aclocal,
automake, autoconf. And the build should generally work. Also it should
ship with Debian and Red Hat.
 
> Or is getting started a piece of cake and I'm just being thicker than
> the offspring of the village idiot and the weather girl?
> 

No, it's not a piece of cake. Just be patient and take the time to learn
the tools (CVS, auto*, etc.). Also realize that some part of the build is
broken most every day. At least on my system.

I've had the most success with gnome-libs and gnome-utils. gmc also builds
most of the time. gnome-core means you're dealing with C++ and Mico; Mico
built with no problems on my Debian pre-2.0 system with egcs 1.0.2 but
YMMV. In any case it takes a while.

Some random hints, no guarantees:

* Every time you install, you have to do it in order. The "Getting
Started"  page gives the correct order. Obviously you don't have to
reinstall stuff that hasn't changed, e.g. imlib doesn't change much
anymore. 

* Every time you change the dependencies of a build directory, you have to
recursively delete all .deps directories, or the build will fail trying to 
find old dependencies. This can happen if you move Gtk from /usr/local/lib
to /usr/lib, for example. (There may be a better way to solve this.)

* Every time you rebuild a module, delete config.cache in the toplevel
directory, and re-run aclocal/automake/autoconf (== autogen.sh). You don't
actually have to do it *every* time, but it's simpler. 

* Use autogen.sh. This will simplify things and be sure you don't skip
steps, and will pass the correct options to everything (for example I
think the Mico autogen.sh passes --with-gtk).

* You *must* have the latest or near-latest versions of automake and
autoconf; you likely have to have the CVS Gtk (though maybe 1.0 will work,
I'm not sure). In general, stay up to date.

* At least one app subdirectory is going to be broken on a given day. You
can remove this subdirectory from the module's Makefile.am and re-run
autogen.sh, or you can remove it from the Makefile (in which case the next
autogen.sh will restore it), or you can make -k. Of course, if you're
feeling noble you can patch the app so it builds instead of skipping it.
:)

* Try make 2>make-errors or something like that to save your errors for
later study.

* There is a buildgnome.sh script in the gnome-devel module; I found I had
to modify it a little, but it might give you some clues.

* Consider using GNU stow or something of the kind, to put Gnome in its
own directory tree. That way you can wipe it all and never endanger other 
stuff in /usr/local.

* Remember ldconfig and/or LD_LIBRARY_PATH - you have to arrange for the
installed libraries to be found. 'make install' should spit out a message
explaining this.

Anyway, HTH and hope it's accurate. Works for me.

Havoc Pennington
http://pobox.com/~hp