Re: Promoting greater integration between developers/writers/I18N:)

[Breda McColgan <breda mccolgan sun com>]

[Moving to desktop-devel-list, probably more appropriate.

Also added reference to usability in last paragraph, but 
won't send to yet another mailing list in case of flamewar :) 

For the start of this thread, see the following URL:
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2003-June/msg00041.html ]


Breda McColgan wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Mark McLoughlin wrote:
> >
> > Hi Breda,
> >
> > On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 12:24, Breda McColgan wrote:
> >
> > > TOPIC ONE
> > > =========
> > > A lively discussion arose about the best way to handle errors found in
> > > the po files by translators.
> >
> >         We're talking about typos, wrong terminology and i18n issues, right ?
> 
> Yes. Also, messages that are too long or too short.
> There might be other issues too, Christian did not have time to finish
> his presentation :(
> 
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > What do you think? Would developers prefer to have multiple problems
> > > logged in a single bug, or one bug per problem?
> >
> >         Trivial problems should be logged altogether in a single bug, harder
> > problems should have individual bugs.
> >
> >         One problem I have as a maintainer is who should I take as having the
> > final word on such things e.g. if some piece of terminology is changed
> > in a UI review, a translator suggests that some other terminology is
> > better and then a writer comes along with a different suggestion. In
> > that case, I don't want to have decide myself - I'd like to be able to
> > cc a single person or alias and say "You guys decide". Who should I cc ?
> 
> *Everyone* should use the Recommended Terminology section of the GNOME
> Documentation Style Guide (GDSG) for such questions. New terms can be
> added, and existing terms updated, as the need arises. The GDSG is
> available at the following URL:
> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gdp/styleguide.html
> 
> >
> > > TOPIC TWO
> > > =========
> > > Of course, ideally we should try to minimize the number of errors in the
> > > first place :)
> > >
> > > Among other topics, Christian outlined the problems that translators
> > > face when translating system messages. I suggested that the developers
> > > should:
> > >   o Read the "Writing for Localization" chapter of the GDSG, to avoid
> > >      common I18N pitfalls when writing the system messages.
> >
> >         Sure, this makes sense - just like it makes sense for every developer
> > to read the HIG. However, its quite likely that a lot of hackers either
> > won't read the GDSG/HIG in full, won't understand it fully or will just
> > forget what they read.
> 
> Don't you guys read these guides every few months, just to refresh your
> memory? ;-P
> 
> >
> >         The HIG guys are thinking of doing a quick checklist type thing for
> > developers. It would perhaps be better if we had a combined checklist
> > thing for issues relating to usability, a11y, i18n and documentation
> > with pointers into each of the individual guides for more information.
> >
> 
> Sounds good.
> 
> > >   o Ask their friendly documentation buddy to review the system
> > >      messages, because:
> > >      - Writers can point out text that is difficult to translate.
> > >      - Writers can also advise when error messages are too long or too
> > >         short, and provide alternative suggestions.
> >
> >         I'm not exactly sure of what you mean by "system messages". Do you mean
> > messages in error/warning dialogs or messages printed to the console. If
> > its the latter I'm not sure we even consistently mark them for
> > translation :/
> 
> I'm talking about the messages that are in the po files. I'm not sure
> how you decide what to put in that file. (I'm not a translator, so I'm
> not very familiar with the contents of such files.)
> 
> >
> >         I'm also not sure how to work it so that hackers would get messages
> > reviewed ... I don't think developers typically put, or even want to
> > put, too much thought into the error/warning messages they are writing.
> > Its usually a diversion from the task at hand e.g. if you are hacking on
> > some feature, you don't want to spend much time on error conditions ...
> > I'm not saying that is ideal, I'm just being realistic about it :-)
> >
> 
> That's why I'm encouraging developers to work more closely with their
> colleagues in the documentation and I18N teams, so that we can all work
> together (along with the usability folks) to:
> "
> - Enhance the user experience in using the GNOME Desktop, applets, and
>    applications.
> - Contribute to the GNOME Desktop being the desktop environment of
>    choice for users worldwide.
> "
> to quote from the presentation given by my colleagues Pat, Irene, and
> Eugene last week :)
> 
> Regards.
> Breda.
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