Re: Addition of Gnome Jabber to cvs.gnome.org

[Martyn Russell <ginxd btopenworld com>]

Christian Rose wrote:

> mån 2003-08-18 klockan 21.35 skrev Martyn Russell:
>  
>
> > Currently it is one of the most developed Jabber clients using GTK/Gnome 2.  I 
> > am taking steps to get integrate it into Gnome as much as possible as originally 
> > it was written with delivery on Windows in mind.  It works on Windows, but my 
> > primary focus is Gnome.  I am even thinking of dropping Windows development.
> >    
>
> I had a quick look at http://gnome-jabber.sourceforge.net/ and to my
> (non-coder) eyes it certainly seems featureful and under active
> development.
>
> There already is at least one Jabber client in GNOME CVS though; Gossip
> (http://www.imendio.com/projects/gossip/) developed by Richard and
> Mikael. And gnome.org's physical resources are limited, as the people
> actually running the stuff keep telling, so I think it's clear that all
> applications cannot be hosted and that we'd want to limit ourselves to
> one application of any kind if possible. At least that's my interpretion
> of those discussions.
>
> Which brings up the question -- how does Gnome Jabber compare to Gossip?
> What are the differences to Gossip? What's common? What are the
> benefits? What are the drawbacks of one over the other?
>  
* How does it compare?

Ok, personally I think they are quite similar as far as look and feel 
are concerned.  I was quite suprised when I first released my 
application that two days later another (Gossip) was released and looked 
identical.

The obvious difference is that Gnome Jabber has more features.  Gnome 
Jabber has been developed since last summer and was not released until a 
nine months or so after starting it which would explain why it is more 
polished.

* What is common?

The look and feel is similar, especially when comparing the Roster layout.

* What are the differences to Gossip?

Mainly the workings of Gnome Jabber.  

1. Gossip is based on Loudmouth (which looks quite good from what I have 
seen).  I too was going to use a library but instead, decided to write 
it all in one program to save on additional depend libraries.  The 
interface, however, has been cut off from the jabber handling.

2. Gnome Jabber is dependant on the GNet library 
(http://www.gnetlibrary.org/) because originally I wanted to port the 
client to Windows (which I have done).  I did write a TCP module in the 
beginning but opted for GNet because it also supports SHA1, IPv6 and 
very soon, SSL support.  Plus, other OS's are starting to include it in 
their builds (I believe Debian unstable packages it).

* What are the benefits?

At this point none other than a lot of implemented features and a very 
polished interface and re-iterated interface to capture the key 
requirements that users want and have requested since it has been available.

* What are the draw backs of one over the other?

Personally I think that if I would do it all again, I would create a 
library or atleast a sub-module of the code for handling the Jabber 
interface.  Currently the code is divided in two halfs, files (starting 
with gj_gtk) for the interface/GUI, and all others are Jabber 
implementation files.  But creating a separate library is Gossip's 
biggest advantage IMO.

Gossip's draw back is perhaps the lack of flexibility and I think in 
some ways it is equal (in terms of Jabber supported features) to what 
Gaim has to offer already.

I have spoken to Mark Finlay to is studying application design and 
usability (and is member of the Gnome Foundation), and he has suggested 
that the implementation of Gnome Jabber is from bottom up (i.e. I have 
looked at what Jabber supports, and offered it in the GUI).  Gossip on 
the other hand (he says...) has looked at what the user needs to be able 
to accomplish and worked to provide that (a top down implementation). 
Mark also believes that Gossip has a higher usability that Gnome Jabber 
mostly because of its simplicity.  To some extent, I agree.

> Are you familiar with Gossip? Have you spoken to Richard and Mikael? If
> there's any difference in goals or methods of the projects, I'm sure
> people here would like to know about those.
>  
I have spoken directly the writers (Richard and Mikael) of Gossip.  They 
have the same goals in mind, that is to produce a simple and easy to use 
Jabber application for Gnome.

They will not stop development of Gossip or Loudmouth and perhaps my 
efforts would be best concerntrated on Gossip instead.  This is 
something I am considering!


Regards,
Martyn