On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:39:19AM +1000, thristian atdot org wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:47:28PM +0100, Calum Benson wrote: > > colin z robertson wrote: > > <mass snippage> > > > File menu > > --------- > > #include <std_i_agree_with_calum.h> > > Just a mention - in the description for "new", you write "The New > command should create a new window with a blank document in it". I > hope it doesn't; rather it should reflect the user's current GnomeMDI > settings (new window, new tab, whatever). I'd be quite annoyed if > suddenly Galeon's tabbed-browsing mode were taken away by adherence to > UI standards. :) Yep. Quite right. > > Edit Menu > > --------- > > > > Separate Undo/Redo menu items tends to suggest multi-level Undo... if > > the app only supports one level, should we suggest a single menu option > > whose label changes between Undo and Redo instead? > > Yes. It also would be nice if the Undo and Redo menu-items' labels > changed to describe the last undoable/redoable action, too. Yes, that's what I've written. But alarmingly, two people have failed to notice that so far. Damn, I wish I was a better writer. > > Or would one of "Undo" and "Redo" just always be greyed-out? (Can't > > say I really care much either way, but traditionally it's been done > > the first way, so the guidelines should probably at least say > > something about it). > > Should be the same menu-item, renamed, with the same shortcut. Old > Photoshop users on the mac (as an example, not a target demographic) > no doubt remember trying a finely-adjusted filter, then repeatedly > tapping Ctrl-Z (or Command-Z on the Mac) to undo and redo the change, > looking to see if the filter was Just Right. :) I don't like this. I'm sure they should be different shortcuts. I don't want to have to develop a Shift-Ctrl-Z habit for applications that have multiple undo/redo levels and a Ctrl-Z habit for applications with a single-level undo/redo. > Why is the "Redo" shortcut Shift-Ctrl-Z? Vim has ^R and I've seen > other applications with Ctrl-Y or even Alt-Backspace (!) on Windows. > I think it would be easier if both undo and redo had two-key > shortcuts. I think Shift-Ctrl-Z would be a little uncomfortable on > this keyboard, at least. Yes, possibly, but I have my reasons: a) There are only 26 letters in the alphabet. The nice ones get used up fast. b) I'm using Shift-<keybinding> for the opposite to an action with <keybinding>. I was planning to recommend this as the only way in which Shift should be used as a shortcut. > > What about the concept of "Repeat" (which is basically "keep redo-ing, > > but to my new selection", as supported by M$ Word etc.), is this > > useful/widespread enough to be worth providing a guideline for? > > Why not? Make the standard as far-reaching as possible, but you don't > have to include *all* feature in every app. Then when someone wants to > add a feature to their program, they're quite likely to find a > standard for whatever esoteric feature they need. :) Yes, that's one philosophy. I'm a little dubious about this because I don't want to set in stone the precise behaviour of some quite experimental features. > While we're here in the Edit menu, how about a standard shortcut for > Find/Find again? The fine folks in Galeon-devel have got it in their > brains that the Gnome standard for "Find" is F6, causing untold > headache for many users as they try to figure out why, and how to > change it. Well, I don't think Find should be in the Edit menu. I think there should be a separate Search menu. > I think standardising on Ctrl-F (for Find...) and Ctrl-G (for Find > again) would do quite nicely. I'll certainly consider it. And yes, Ctrl-F is definately nicer than F6. ... Though that does leave the question of what the function keys should be used for. > > Options Menu > > ------------ > > > > Ah, okay, you've solved the "Preferences/Settings" debate by using the > > most neutral term for the configuration menu title :) > > How about we stick with "Settings" being things that you *have* to get > right for the program to work properly (think HTTP proxy, POP3 server, > etc) and "Preferences" having no Right Answer but rather whatever you > prefer. Right now, most GNOME apps use a "Settings" menu containing > one item, "Preferences", which seems rather odd. Have you read through the Terminology thread that happened here in April? My reasoning is all explained there. > And let's not forget the useful ability to put checkboxes and radio > buttons in the Settings menu, like Galeon's ever-popular "Enable > Javascript" item, "Enable proxy", as well as the image animation > prefs as well. Right. I'm going to write something about how these sorts of menu features should be used in general. I may try to work some sort of reminder about this into the Options menu section as well. > I suggest (well, OK, I nabbed it from mpt of n.p.m.ui :) that the > Preferences dialog be given the shortcut key "Ctrl-;". Possibly. I was avoiding giving it a shortcut because I'm not sure that it would be used very often, and it will still be available with "Alt-O O" anyway. colin _____________________________ ____ rtnl http://rational.cjb.net c z robertson ndirect co uk icq 13294163
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