Re: Menu Guidelines



On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 11:39:19AM +1000, thristian atdot org wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:47:28PM +0100, Calum Benson wrote:
> > colin z robertson wrote:
> 
> <mass snippage>
> 
> > File menu
> > ---------
> 
> #include <std_i_agree_with_calum.h>
> 
> Just a mention - in the description for "new", you write "The New
> command should create a new window with a blank document in it". I
> hope it doesn't; rather it should reflect the user's current GnomeMDI
> settings (new window, new tab, whatever). I'd be quite annoyed if
> suddenly Galeon's tabbed-browsing mode were taken away by adherence to
> UI standards. :)

Yep. Quite right.


> > Edit Menu
> > ---------
> > 
> > Separate Undo/Redo menu items tends to suggest multi-level Undo... if
> > the app only supports one level, should we suggest a single menu option
> > whose label changes between Undo and Redo instead?  
> 
> Yes. It also would be nice if the Undo and Redo menu-items' labels
> changed to describe the last undoable/redoable action, too.

Yes, that's what I've written. But alarmingly, two people have failed
to notice that so far. Damn, I wish I was a better writer.


> > Or would one of "Undo" and "Redo" just always be greyed-out?  (Can't
> > say I really care much either way, but traditionally it's been done
> > the first way, so the guidelines should probably at least say
> > something about it).
> 
> Should be the same menu-item, renamed, with the same shortcut. Old
> Photoshop users on the mac (as an example, not a target demographic)
> no doubt remember trying a finely-adjusted filter, then repeatedly
> tapping Ctrl-Z (or Command-Z on the Mac) to undo and redo the change,
> looking to see if the filter was Just Right. :)

I don't like this. I'm sure they should be different shortcuts. I
don't want to have to develop a Shift-Ctrl-Z habit for applications
that have multiple undo/redo levels and a Ctrl-Z habit for
applications with a single-level undo/redo.


> Why is the "Redo" shortcut Shift-Ctrl-Z? Vim has ^R and I've seen
> other applications with Ctrl-Y or even Alt-Backspace (!) on Windows.
> I think it would be easier if both undo and redo had two-key
> shortcuts. I think Shift-Ctrl-Z would be a little uncomfortable on
> this keyboard, at least.

Yes, possibly, but I have my reasons:

a) There are only 26 letters in the alphabet. The nice ones get used
up fast.

b) I'm using Shift-<keybinding> for the opposite to an action with
<keybinding>. I was planning to recommend this as the only way in
which Shift should be used as a shortcut.


> > What about the concept of "Repeat" (which is basically "keep redo-ing,
> > but to my new selection", as supported by M$ Word etc.), is this
> > useful/widespread enough to be worth providing a guideline for?
> 
> Why not? Make the standard as far-reaching as possible, but you don't
> have to include *all* feature in every app. Then when someone wants to
> add a feature to their program, they're quite likely to find a
> standard for whatever esoteric feature they need. :)

Yes, that's one philosophy. I'm a little dubious about this because I
don't want to set in stone the precise behaviour of some quite
experimental features.


> While we're here in the Edit menu, how about a standard shortcut for
> Find/Find again? The fine folks in Galeon-devel have got it in their
> brains that the Gnome standard for "Find" is F6, causing untold
> headache for many users as they try to figure out why, and how to
> change it. 

Well, I don't think Find should be in the Edit menu. I think there
should be a separate Search menu.

> I think standardising on Ctrl-F (for Find...) and Ctrl-G (for Find
> again) would do quite nicely.

I'll certainly consider it. And yes, Ctrl-F is definately nicer than
F6.

... Though that does leave the question of what the function keys
should be used for.


> > Options Menu
> > ------------
> > 
> > Ah, okay, you've solved the "Preferences/Settings" debate by using the
> > most neutral term for the configuration menu title :)  
> 
> How about we stick with "Settings" being things that you *have* to get
> right for the program to work properly (think HTTP proxy, POP3 server,
> etc) and "Preferences" having no Right Answer but rather whatever you
> prefer. Right now, most GNOME apps use a "Settings" menu containing
> one item, "Preferences", which seems rather odd.

Have you read through the Terminology thread that happened here in
April? My reasoning is all explained there.


> And let's not forget the useful ability to put checkboxes and radio
> buttons in the Settings menu, like Galeon's ever-popular "Enable
> Javascript" item, "Enable proxy", as well as the image animation
> prefs as well.

Right. I'm going to write something about how these sorts of menu
features should be used in general. I may try to work some sort of
reminder about this into the Options menu section as well.


> I suggest (well, OK, I nabbed it from mpt of n.p.m.ui :) that the
> Preferences dialog be given the shortcut key "Ctrl-;".

Possibly. I was avoiding giving it a shortcut because I'm not sure
that it would be used very often, and it will still be available with
"Alt-O O" anyway.

colin

  _____________________________                            ____
  rtnl  http://rational.cjb.net     c z robertson ndirect co uk
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