Re: Huge Batch Reply: Lars

[Tom Vogt <tom lemuria org>]

Dan Effugas Kaminsky <effugas@best.com> wrote:
> >Yes. So why do we need another Exit in another menu?
> 
> Because it makes logical sense.

it  doesn't make the slightest sense.


> The menuprint is owned by the *system*, not
> by the application.  In Windows right now when a program crashes I need to
> press control-alt-delete and try to find that program's entry, and kill
> that.  It'd be much nicer to have a button that works when even the app
> doesn't and be able to force quit.

we already have that.  it's called  window manager.


> By the same token, it's no longer a question that Exit has file contexts.

pardon? because you keep on insisting it's suddenly right?


> We've established that users expect their unfinished work to be saved, or at
> least checked if they should be saved, when Exit is triggered.  The behavior
> of Force Quit?  Trigger Exit, and if the process isn't gone in a 10 seconds,
> raise a window saying "kill application?"

very interesting. ideas suddenly stop  floating around and are hard facts
without human interaction. would this be a circus, it'd  be most interesting
to watch. sadly, it isn't.


> The file menu is one of those things that's just INCREDIBLY consistent, I'm
> sure the Mac HCI guidelines REALLY lock down its contents.
> (Note...Kaminsky's Second Law...)  That's just it...consistent interface,
> time after time after time after time makes users SCREAM if something isn't
> done right.

a) please stop argumenting with your own laws. it was a nice abbreviation
the first three times, but it's getting annoying.


> When a non-geek like my GF(how'd that happen?) SPAZZES OUT OVER A GEEK
> ISSUE, that means something.

I wrote a long mail to tell you what it means.


> It means that, unlike the rest of the
> interface, average joe users happen to find the File menu VERY VERY USABLE.

you're guessing.
thought you were in search of logic?


> It *works*, it's *ALWAYS* there, it's comforting, and it maps to a "brain
> image" of how programs work.

you're guessing again. and about brain image - nah. couldn't be further away
from that. working on something in that area right now,  that's why I think
I can say that.


> Off the top of your head, right now, how do you print?  File::Print.  Off
> the top of your head, right now, how do you save?  File::Save.  Off the top
> of your head, how do you Exit?

off the top of your head, what does this prove? that we're used to certain
layouts.

in the uk they drive on the other side of the road. guess your girlfriend
would be pissed if you told her some people want to move the steering wheel
to the other side of the car.


> My girlfriend, my 75 year old grandmother, and every user I know will RUN IN
> FEAR away from GNOME if it f***s with file.

you're guessing, exagerating, you're not being logical nor constructive.
what is all this discussion doing, anyway?

may I offer you a suggestion? stop assuming we're all idiots, lay back for a
day or two and do nothing but listen.

I mean that. I really do.


-- 
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
		-- Henry Spencer