Re: misconceptions

["Dan Kaminsky" <effugas best com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: sun <as387@yfn.ysu.edu>
To: Dan Kaminsky <effugas@best.com>; gnome-gui-list@gnome.org
<gnome-gui-list@gnome.org>
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 4:53 PM
Subject: misconceptions


>i was going to call it quits and go to bed, but there are a few more
>items here which, from the way you've presented them, shows me you've
>misunderstood the concepts i've proposed, so i'm back to set the record
>straight...
>
>Dan Kaminsky wrote:
>
>> I don't care about numbers.  I care about *fleshed out proposals*.
>>
>> What do you say to:
>>
>> 1)  What's excluded by Program?  File implies I/O(you take a document
inside
>> or out of a physical file), but Program?  ANYTHING could go inside of
>> Program.
>
>see, you've completely overlooked the fact that nobody wants "just
>anything" to go inside of program; we want *specific* items to go inside
>program ("tmfkap"). these specific items are commands whose influence is
>application-wide, not dedicated to just one document in the application,
>not just one text-entry box, not just one paragraph with the funny
>font... the _whole program_ will be affected. users will learn this
>quickly and get spoiled by it.


So what items, hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm?  I mean besides exit.  Don't put it off,
I really want to hear what comes out of file and goes into program.  Do
tell.

I mean, as far as I can tell, the entire menu bar does app-wide stuff, to
some degree...

>> 2)  So where are you going to PUT program, anyway?
>
>to the left of the file (or whatever) menu. you saw my mockups, right?
>
>i mean, okay, so i might get voted down on the foot icon idea, but the
>placement is right.
>
>> If it doesn't kill File,
>> by your own admission it doesn't belong in the left side,
>
>did i miss the post where he said that?


Yeah, you did.  Tom said it.

>> and by your own
>> admission you don't want to kill file.  But, if it doesn't belong on the
>> left side, and if it doesn't kill File, it really doesn't get most of the
>> advantages "everyone" here seems to want.
>
>that's why it should go on the left. :)


OK, well then we got a problem.

>wot, did somebody say we should get rid of quit? where was that stated?


Gee, this is interesting.  I thought "quit has nothing to do with file", and
I didn't see no quit in the mockup under File...

>> 4)  Lets say somebody *disagrees* with you about what's a Program menu
thing
>> and what's a File menu thing.  Now users are going to have to hunt back
and
>> forth "I wonder where THIS app decided to put print"
>
>we're one step ahead of you here, dan: on the gnome-gui-list, we're
>fleshing out a gnome style guide right now to answer questions like
>that.:)


I can smell programmers disagreeing with this design choice, and I don't see
good enough reasons for them to just not ignore it.

>i cast my vote for the document/file/picture menu. "print picture" makes
>a complete, clear sentence and therefore makes logical sense.


I agree with the statement that the active document type should be spelled
out.  (Select a word document, and you get "print word document")

Plus, you get the ability to right click on the minbar icon and choose
between "print screenshot" and "print word document".