Re: RGSG

["Dan Kaminsky" <effugas best com>]

>"File"->Close
>and
>"Program"->Exit
>does anyone see any source of confusion there? I don't. your point is mood,
>dan, exactly BECAUSE of the "Program" menu.


Like I said, Close should be spelled out.

>
>> You're right, just because the person I was responding to agreed with me
>> does not mean everybody did.  But, yeah, I agree with this statement--I
>> don't really think we wanna put users through this mess.
>
>what mess? wanna bet they dig it the second time they try? don't you think
>this "mess" is WAY less messy than having one "close"  and one  "quit"
item
>in the SAME  menu? (look at a random windoze app for an example)
>
>dude, there is exactly  one person arguing against the Program menu here
and
>that is you. I just got an e-mail from bowie in response to the
Prog/Program
>discussion saying basically that he wondered how many people it would take
>to convince  me - gotta bounce  that question right back at you.


I don't care about numbers.  I care about *fleshed out proposals*.

What do you say to:

1)  What's excluded by Program?  File implies I/O(you take a document inside
or out of a physical file), but Program?  ANYTHING could go inside of
Program.

2)  So where are you going to PUT program, anyway?  If it doesn't kill File,
by your own admission it doesn't belong in the left side, and by your own
admission you don't want to kill file.  But, if it doesn't belong on the
left side, and if it doesn't kill File, it really doesn't get most of the
advantages "everyone" here seems to want.

3)  The research.  Ask some users what they do if there's no Quit.  They
control-alt-delete.  On a Linux box, that's instant shutdown right now.
(That needs to change.)

4)  Lets say somebody *disagrees* with you about what's a Program menu thing
and what's a File menu thing.  Now users are going to have to hunt back and
forth "I wonder where THIS app decided to put print"

Tom, there are more proposals out there than your own.  I've been known to
change my mind *A NUMBER* of times, but I'm not gonna do it unless it's for
the right reasons.

I don't fear dissent.  I fear committee rubberstamp.