Re: RGSG

["Dan Kaminsky" <effugas best com>]

>there should be a "session" menu instead of a "file" menu in this case.
>in the "session" menu will be "import" and "export" to deal with
>individual sample files or sequencing files as needed, but since the
>project is dealt with by _groups_ of files on the whole, the "file" menu
>doesn't make sense.
>
>i'm just pointing this out not because i like splitting hairs, but
>because i don't think it's right to mandate a "file" menu. in fact, even
>for applications which _do_ deal with single files, i'd rather see a
>"picture," "document," or "sound" menu in place of the "file" menu as
>necessary. the person (sorry, deleted the post, can't credit properly)
>who pointed out that object-oriented content creation should displace
>the antiquated filesystem metaphor was right.


OK, lets walk up to a few people, just like we did with "Prog", and test
your hypothesis.   I could be wrong.  *I* happen to think people will know
what the "File" command is going to do(stuff involving files), rather then
"Session" (too big a word), "Picture"(does picture change the way the
picture looks?  Does it change the view of the window?  Why do I have a view
menu?), "Document"(Can I make things double spaced in Document like I can
with Microsoft Word?), or "Sound"?  I see your point--that much of the UI
consistency is taken care of by forcing all the CONTENTS of the file menu
all the way to the left, and just making the name fit whatever stuff is
being opened.  But think about it...there's a sound FILE, a document FILE,
or a picture FILE being dealt on...semantically it works, lets ask some
users, OK?

>> File|Settings is bad--unless you're changing the settings on the active
>> file.  But that's it.
>>
>> >i think a program should have a "file" menu _only_ if it deals with
>> >individual files as its basic form of storage. most games, for instance,
>> >would not have a "file" menu either. many don't already.
>>
>> Open save game FILE...clear high score FILE...exit this game FILE...
>
>no, you don't exit game files. you exit game applications. it's possible
>to close a file without closing an application, and this is an entirely
>separate operation and must be kept distinctly different.


Kinda hard to keep files open after exiting the application, also kind hard
to open up new files or save files or do anything.

>btw, for the rest of your examples, i'd say "game->open" and
>"scores->clear" are more concise, and create less confusion for new
>users who haven't learned about storing information in file systems and
>couldn't (and shouldn't be forced to) care less.


Would like to see what users have to say, I'll create some mockups tommorow
night.

You could be right here--games are such a special case, maybe they deserve
exception.

>> >as far as "edit," same story: only include it if there's a real use for
>> >it. if there's no content to copy or paste, your "edit" menu is pretty
>> >worthless. don't put a down button next to an elevator in the basement.
>>
>> Edit can be worthless, but only in games.  mIRC in Windows has no edit
>> menu...ooh, hope nobody wants to copy and paste...
>
>one more time, for posterity's sake: only include it if there's a real
>use for it. if there's no content to copy or paste, your "edit" menu is
>pretty worthless. don't mandate its use either.


It's not the place of the app programmer to decide if copying is going to be
used.  "Oh, this is just a small app, who is going to want to copy text out
of it?"  OK, so here I am, dealing with the text output of a window that's
showing me all the files on my system that fulfill some kind of random
category, and look, I can't copy.

"But it's just a small app!"

This is a big deal for the gnome gui.  I can copy *anything* in
windows(usually) TO anything in windows(again, usually).  Pasting into
Netobjects Fusion is among the #1 ways to convert a Word document into HTML.
There's no Import feature--paste works.  I've watched TOTAL NEWBIES take the
output from Wordperfect and paste it into Coreldraw.  This is wonderful
functionality, we can't discount it.  Copy/Paste is at the core of a good
UI, and unless there is TRULY absolutely NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH that could be
copied from an application, there should be an edit menu.