Re: GDP GNOME 2 release team minutes

[Eric Baudais <baudais okstate edu>]

On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 01:06:40PM +1000, Nicholas Curran wrote:
> On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 11:11, Kevin Conder wrote: 
> > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 gnome-doc-list-request gnome org wrote:
> > 
> > > From: John Fleck <jfleck inkstain net>
> > > 
> > > Minutes of the GDP GNOME 2 Release Team, Jan. 19, 02
> > 
> > 	What is this team? How does one get on this team? Who are these
> > people? What companies do they work for? Which tasks are they each
> > responsible for?
> 
> Of course you would not know the answers to these questions.  Neither do
> I.  We are not part of this little club that suddenly sprang up.  After
> all, according to Mr Kirillov, we are not part of the "group of people
> who are actively involved in writing and updating GNOME docs".  It
> doesn't matter that we may be actively involved in writing and updating
> docs for GNOME applications that are external to the core GNOME
> packages.  We simply do not belong to the 'GDP GNOME 2 Release Team'. 

I don't work for any company.  I spent about 2 hours a day working on 
making the stylesheets for gnome-db2html and maintaining my current docs.  
We do care about people writing non-core docs.  The reason there are no 
docs on the GNOME 2 technologies is because we are developing them now.  
This meeting was mainly for the people working on these "core" technologies.  
Once GNOME 2 is released we will start writing docs on these technologies so 
that GNOME applications can have good docs.

> > 	Where did this meeting take place? Was this a face-to-face meeting
> > or did it happen on the #docs IRC channel? How come no information (that I
> > was aware of) about it was posted on developer.gnome.org?
> 
> On #docs, of course!  You know, that channel which you connect to, and
> because it is so quiet, all you get to see are people entering or
> exiting.  It is heaps of fun to ask a question, and then wait forever
> because everyone is either watching other channels or asleep. 

I'm deeply offended by this remark.  I monitor #docs for about 10 hours a 
day.  Most questions are answered promptly.  I think the channel is dead 
during 6:00 am UTC to 4:00pm UTC.  You can hardly blame us for not living 
in your timezone.

> As for posting information on developer.gnome.org, why bother?  We don't
> want to make it easier for people to contribute if they are not going to
> do docs 24/7, or read the minds of the 'GDP GNOME 2 Release Team'. 
>
> > > * Status of docs build and conversion to XML for the various packages
> > > 
> > >   - We're mostly nowhere here. gnome-utils has been converted,
> > >     gnome-core is underway. Trevor said gnome-applets is under control
> > >     and will be ready in time. No one has stepped forward to take
> > >     charge of gnome-games.
> > 
> > 	How can we [people not at the meeting] know the current status of
> > this conversion? CVS diffs? Or do you just communicate these matters to
> > each other in clandestine meetings by word of mouth? 
> 
> Telepathy, stupid! 

No, this email that John Fleck has written was to inform the GDP about the 
current status of the GNOME 2 technologies.

> > 	Why don't you keep DocTable updated? Why don't you post status
> > reports to developer.gnome.org more frequently? To someone not in your 
> > clique, it's hard to understand what's going on. (Much less figure how to
> > get involved.)
> > 
> 
> Why bother telling anybody else?  If Mr Kirillov and Mr Fleck are any
> indication, the 'GDP GNOME 2 Release Team' doesn't need you, me or
> anyone else.  These are the elite doc writers.  If Mr Kirillov and Mr
> Fleck sincerely wanted your assistance, they would have been polite
> instead of patronising. 

Where did you get this GDP GNOME 2 Release Team idea?  I am definitely 
not part of this.  John reports on docs for the GNOME 2 Release Team, but 
there is not separate GDP Release Team.

> But instead, Mr Kirillov is going to ignore you, and expects other
> people to do the same.  Hmmph.  Maybe WE should be setting our email
> accounts to ignore HIM. 
> 
> Meanwhile, Mr Fleck is dedicated to dividing this *volunteer* project
> into two.  On one side, we have the elite 'GDP GNOME 2 Release Team',
> who apparently do everything, while the lowly rest of us just do nothing
> but bludge.  It doesn't matter some of us are busy with our own docs and
> lives.  We should all do core GNOME docs, 24/7! 

Mister, John Fleck is trying to coordinate this whole GDP because no one has 
stepped up to do it.  He is NOT getting paid.  I do not think that any company 
cares whether the GDP is successful or not, just that the docs for their apps 
work.  No one you have mentioned is getting paid for their work too.

> Mr Kirillov:  I never noticed Kevin writing like a 14 year old.  He did
> seem annoyed, but that doesn't give you reason to bite his head off and
> throw a tantrum. 
> Mr Fleck:  Repeat after me:  "Hey, people have other things in life but
> write docs for the core of GNOME.  But maybe if I am polite, and we make
> it *very* easy for people to join, maybe more people will help with the
> little bit of time they have spare." 

John was just venting from frustration that no one has stepped up and taken 
any responsibility for the core docs besides a few people.  If you do not 
wish to coordinate the core docs this is fine, but do not bash those that do.

> I haven't done nearly as much work as Kirillov and Fleck have towards
> GNOME as a whole, and I freely admit that.  But I am not going to sit
> back while concerns that seem valid to me are crushed by "if you're not
> one of us, go away" mentality. 
> 
> Finally, I suppose I should put my actions where my mouth is with regard
> to making things easier for people to join.  What is involved in keeping
> the DocTable up-to-date?  If it is not too much, I may be able to help
> in this regard.

I think that about 2 hours a day is needed to get the DocTable working and 
updated in a month.  You need to learn PHP and how the DocTable is written.  
It is on canvas.gnome.org:65348/gdp/doctable/doctable_list.php3?CategoryID=1
I'm sending you a copy of the entire DocTable for your viewing pleasure.  It 
will be in another email since I don't want to spam the entire list.

Eric Baudais