Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior

Jonathan Kamens <jik kamens us> writes:

I hate the new Save vs. Export behavior. It is completely non-intuitive to me, it makes
my brain stumble every time I try to do just about any of the things that I do in GIMP
on a regular basis, and it makes most of my workflows take more thought and more button
clicks / key presses than they used to.

I love the new behaviour :)

Here's just one use case that is completely destroyed by this change... Loading a JPG to
edit and save back to JPG. Old way:

 1. "gimp file.jpg".
 2. Make changes.
 3. Type ctrl-s periodically while working to save progress.
 4. Type ctrl-q.

New way:

 1. "gimp file.jpg".
 2. Make changes.
 3. Open File menu and select "Overwrite" (no keyboard shortcut for that!).
 4. Periodically type ctrl-e to save further progress (because for some inexplicable
    reason, once you use the "Overwrite" command it disappears and is replaced with the
    "Export" command which appears to do exactly the same thing, but this one has a
    keyboard shortcut; how does that make sense, exactly)?
 5. Type ctrl-q.
 6. GIMP tells me I have unsaved changes, even though I just saved them with ctrl-e.
 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit.

If I can't remember whether I've saved already or not and hit ctrl-e instead of using
File | Overwrite, an export dialog pops up and if I just accept the file name in it, I
am asked to confirm that I want to replace the file. Then I'm prompted for export
settings. This is absurd.

Here's another use case that's rendered more complex by this change... Load an image,
edit, and save in a different format. Old way:

 1. "gimp image.fmt1".
 2. Make changes.
 3. ctrl-shift-s.
 4. Modify extension in save dialog.

… and click away the warning about flattening / losing information ;)

 5. ctrl-q.

New way:

 1. "gimp image.fmt1".
 2. Make changes.
 3. ctrl-shift-e. (and, mind you, I have to remember that it's shift-ctrl-e, instead of
    shift-ctrl-s like in every other freakin' application I use on either Linux and

You can always rebind it, but is it really that difficult to remember?

 4. Modify extension in save dialog.
 5. Type ctrl-q.
 6. GIMP tells me that I have unsaved changes, even though I just saved them with

This new warning replaces the old warning about flattening / losing

 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit.

But what about when I do want to load an image in a non-XCF format and then save as XCF?
Well, Ctrl-shift-e won't work for that, because the export dialog doesn't let you export
as XCF. I see no advantage whatsoever to this restriction. So I have to remember that in
this one special case of changing the format of an image, I have to use ctrl-s instead
of ctrl-shift-e.

For those who use GIMP a lot, XFC is the default case, not the special

There isn't a single thing that I use GIMP for that is made easier or faster by this
interface change. Not one thing.

I won't argue against that, but at the same time I don't see the big
problem. It seems the users most likely to argue against it are those
who don't do more than minor touch-ups in GIMP. Those who use GIMP more
extensively, do gain a lot from the new functionality.

I understand that there is "information loss" when an image is saved as a format other
than XCF. But the fact of the matter is that when all I'm doing is retouching an image,
which is what I do most with gimp, I don't give a flying fig about that "information
loss." I just want the image to save, nice and easy, when I'm done editing it. And I
don't want to have to remember different commands for GIMP than for every other program
I use. And I don't want the command I have to use the first time I save an image to be
different from the command I use the next time; that just makes no sense. Because of
this particular "feature," I can't even make this problem less onerous by swapping the
ctrl-s/ctrl-e and shift-ctrl-s/shift-ctrl-e bindings. Brilliant!

I understand that the GIMP developers consider XCF a "special" format which deserves
special treatment. Well, I don't, and I'm sure there are many, many users like me who
don't either. This change is just sticking a thumb in all of our eyes.

You could have done this the LibreOffice way... When you try to save an image loaded
from a format with information loss, you get a pop-up warning you and giving you the
choice of whether to proceed or save as XCF (and also giving you the choice to make this
warning go away in the future and just save like you told it to). This is what
LibreOffice does, e.g., when you load and then try to save a DOC file.

Oh, no, please don't. Doc's at least retain _most_ of the information,
now if you'd said .rtf you'd be closer to the truth …

Or you could have made this change at least a little bit less onerous by making the save
dialog default to XCF but allowing the user to edit the extension to save to another
format. But no, if you try to do that, it tells you, "Sorry, this dialog only saves in
XCF format," and you have to cancel out of it and export instead.

In my opinion, this change is a huge, huge step backward in useability.

  Jonathan Kamens

The ui docs linked to in this thread argue quite well for the change,
I'll just describe my main use case: I love being able to both save and
export as I go along. Working on a web site, I definitely want to keep
layer info available, so I need the XCF, but to see how it looks in
Firefox, I need the PNG there too. So as I change something, and I want
to quickly see how it looks in Firefox, I can just ctrl+shift+e (then
click reload in Firefox). And it'll retain the path I last specified, so
I don't have to enter anything. And as I go along, I click ctrl+s to
keep the main XCF up-to-date, again without having to re-enter the path.

With the old method, I would work on an XCF, then I had to save as,
select PNG, ignore warnings, then, _very importantly_, I had to remember
to switch back to XCF before I exited GIMP (or had a crash or power-loss
or whatever), otherwise I'd lose the last steps. If I had GIMP focused
but thought I had Firefox focused, and pressed Ctrl+W to close a tab,
it'd take down the image instead with no warning about unsaved changes,
and all the steps after I switched to "preview mode" would be lost. Pure
danger. A graphical program shouldn't make you have to remember not to
shoot yourself in the foot like that.

best regards,
Kevin Brubeck Unhammer

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