Re: [Evolution] Google's blockage of Evolution with Gmail, and Web Presence of Evolution

[Pete Biggs <pete biggs org uk>]

On Sun, 2016-01-24 at 12:34 -0500, Nick Pontillo wrote:
> Hey all, there are two things I'd like to propose/bring to attention.

It would be good to know what version of Evolution you are using so we
can put your comments in to historical context.

> First of all, Google is blocking Evolution from working with Gmail due
> to this: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en

I think "blocking" is putting a bit strongly - Google changed it's
authentication mechanism, that is all.

> There are three options here. One is Evolution starts using 0auth2, and
> is therefore not blocked when it tries to login to Gmail.

It does to some extent.  Provisioning of non-imap gmail accounts is
done via Gnome online accounts - that is the mechanism for dealing with
Oauth2 in Gnome and since Evolution is a well behaved Gnome
application, it "all just works".


>  A second
> option is to tell the user how to connect their Evolution to their Gmail
> right in the setup wizard, without them having to look for the
> workaround online like I did 

If you set things up as IMAP, then I suspect you got the wrong
information.  

> (while you're at it, you might as well tell
> them to enable POP/IMAP too, since that also needs to be done). The
> third option is to do nothing, and essentially alienate every Gmail user
> who doesn't have the patience to figure out where to go in the Google
> settings to "allow less secure apps".

The help within Evolution tells you how to enable Gmail IMAP.

> If it is not feasible, then I would suggest option 2, which is to give
> the user more instruction in the very beginning for how to get around
> this. Specifically, I think the setup wizard when you run Evolution for
> the first time should say something along the lines of "if you would
> like to connect a Gmail account, go to
> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps and enable less
> secure apps. Then log in to gmail with a web browser, go to settings, go
> to 'forwarding and pop/imap', and enable pop or imap."

To be honest, that's just not the right thing to do - it presupposes
that the user *only* wants to use mail.  Gmail is a whole lot more than
that - contacts, calendar, notes and so on.  Pointing a user to an IMAP
solution just causes problems further down the line.

> And this brings me to the other thing I want to talk about, which is
> that in order to give feedback about this I had to sign up for this
> mailing list and send out an email. I think there is a good opportunity
> for Evolution to improve its user-friendliness by having a forum on the
> web of some sort.

Just no. Forums/fora are a pain in the backside.  I get Evolution list
emails into my inbox (well sort of) and I can see them immediately and
try to help people.  I would have to visit a forum on the web and
actively go looking for things to help people with.  

> *Forums are better than IRC and mailing lists because people don't have
> to sign up to look at them*, 

Err, what about 

  https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/

no sign up for that.

> therefore if someone is having a problem
> they can look on the forum for solutions. Right now there is no central
> place on the web where people can go to look for help and tips with
> Evolution 

  https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/


> - unless they set up IRC, sign up to the mailing list, or to
> the Gnome wiki. There are threads *about* Evolution in other tech
> forums, but there is no Evolution forum.
>
> This does not even require any money, hardware, or investment from
> Gnome. All it would take is for someone to make a subreddit called
> "/r/evolutionmail" 

Oh great, I can really imagine that being immune from the creationist
nut jobs on reddit.

And personally I find reddit a confusing mess.

> and then link to that subreddit in the Evolution
> manual, gnome wiki page, and setup wizard. Maybe advertise it a bit on
> Linux blogs/forums on the same day it's created. And it could even link
> to all the other Evolution stuff like this:
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/ and this:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

Oh, and perhaps on 

  https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/

as well??

> So in short:
>
> 1: In light of Google's policy, do something to make it easier to
> connect Gmail accounts with Evolution.

Done.

> 2: Have a public forum where people can ask for help and provide
> assistance anonymously,

Why anonymously??  If you mean that you don't have to sign up, then all
forums I have ever come across you have to sign up to to ask/answer
topics.  Certainly you have to for reddit.  

And in any case, I don't think you have to sign up to use this list -
if you aren't a subscriber, then your post is moderated, but it will
get through if it is suitable.  And you can look at the answers on,
yes, you guessed it:

   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/

P.