Re: [Evolution-hackers] Where to put UI items for templates (Bug #127529)

[Sankar P <psankar novell com>]

On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 00:42 +0100, guenther wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 14:09 +0530, Sankar P wrote:
> 
> > I looked at the patches attached in the above url. The patches are not
> > yet complete so I am not doing an in-line patch-analysis reply. Some of
> > my comments are :
> > 
> > - An account should be able to choose, what should be the default
> > template that it has to use and it should be noted that NONE should also
> > be an option here.
> 
> This is not how I understood the long-time user-requested feature of
> Templates. See my previous mail -- what are we really discussing here?
> 
> 
> > - You can add an option, "File->New from templates" which should list
> > the templates and the user should be able to choose a template and start
> > composing a mail. I will recommend getting a nod from Srini (CCed) for
> > any usability/UI aspects regarding this, before you start coding.
> 
> Exactly. This approach introduces a *lot* of UI issues and different
> concepts, that need to be discussed before implementing it.
> 
> 
> > - You need to add a view-column, "Template name" that will be available
> > for the Templates folder (only).  All messages stored as templates
> > should have a name associated to identify the message-template. It is
> > far more usable to read, "Status Report", "Release Announcement Mail",
> > "String Announcement Mail", "ABI Break announcement ;-)" etc., rather
> > than opening every mail and seeing, "Is this what I want to send now ?"
> 
> Where did the "Template name" come from?? So far I haven't seen any
> mention of an additional text input field for this in the Composer, or
> any other way to define it. I did not get the impression either this has
> been planned when discussing Templates with Matthew on IRC.
> 
> 

I am not aware of what you discussed with Matthew on IRC regarding this.
But the initial bounty description have always stated that the Template
folder should be a special folder that is available under "On the
computer". http://www.gnome.org/bounties/Mailer.html#127529

> > - You need to close the composer once an user chooses "Save
> > Template" (as of now it is not doing and it keeps on creating new
> > templates) .
> 
> NO. This is totally wrong.  Example: Every bloody text editor. Saving a
> document does not close the editor.

Accepted.

> 
> 
> > - Reopening a template and saving it again should not create a new
> > template.

This behavior lead to the above comment.

> > 
> > - Your patch misses mail.error.xml changes as a result none of the user
> > choice-asking dialogs appear.
> > 
> > - All mail operations like copy/move/DnD on templates folder should be
> > disabled. (IMO, it is a lot more easier to implement a new tab under
> > Composer-preferences than a new templates folder)
> > 
> > - When there is a clash between account's default signature and the used
> > template's signature, the template's signature should be given more
> > priority.
> > 
> > - The code to save a template should ensure teh uniqueness in naming
> > etc.
> 
> Which code to save the Template. What name (again)?
> 
> The current implementation is just like Drafts. The list view is. And
> there is no uniqueness other than a mail is a mail is mail. Templates
> (currently) are stored using the Evo internal (actually, account
> specific) backend. That is a single mbox file, internally.

As I said in my earlier mail, what we get when we save a message as a
Template is something that Evolution only can understand. 

If it is just location-independence, How often do you think a Evolution
user will switch across various computers ? If it is very often, he
should not use a thick mail-client and rather be using a thin web-based
client.

However, it is often that a user may be having Evolution running on
two-three different computers (Home/Office). And he might want to have
the same set of templates across his machines. He can do it if once he
saves the template in one machine and import it in the other machine as
well.

Having the template stored in a server is a good idea when we have a
common standard for template messages. Like, ${DATE} in a template
message will mean any mail-client should expand it to the current-date.
We dont have a common open-standard at the moment, and we are not trying
to create one.

The templates that we are trying to implement in Evolution are more like
the templates that you have in your mobile-phones for sms. That's why I
said Templates that we want in Evolution are more like the SIGNATURES
that we already have.

By dis-associating the templates and the accounts, you are making sure
that a template that you create will be accessible by any account in
Evolution. For instance, if I have 3 accounts for @novell.com
@ximian.com @gnome.org  and I randomly use any account to send
release-announce mails, with a pre-defined template that I have. More, I
can share my template with another user who sends similar mails. And we
dont have to copy/import the template to each account that we have. 

Also note that, GroupWise and Exchange servers have implemented
Templates in their own way. If a GroupWise/ Exchange Evolution user,
creates a template in any of his remote folders, it is natural for him
to expect that these templates are synonymous to his templates that are
stored in his server. But what we store in the remote templates folder
is just a ill-formed message which will not be compliant with the
templates format used by any of these servers. Consider how much this
will take for Admins to explain to users that we you store in a
GroupWise / Exchange folders is a template for Evolution and will not be
available from their proprietary clients.

> 
> For Drafts it is totally valid to have multiple Drafts with the same
> Subject. And users are used to deal with lousy Subjects, providing no
> information at all. They do send it out all the time. They receive it
> all the time. And yet they somehow manage to distinguish between them.
> (How many mails with Subjects like "your info" do you get? Or the all
> time classics for mailing lists: "help" and "$app error".)
> 
> 
> > - There must be a way to create a normal new mail when the user has set
> > a default-template. (May be a default Empty-mail template)
> 
> The current discussion shows, we first need to decide what this mystery
> Template thingy actually is about...
> 
>   guenther
> 
> 
-- 
Sankar