[Epiphany] Re: Tabs options

[Nikolai Weibull <lone-star home se>]

* Mike <mike@redtux.demon.co.uk> [Aug, 30 2003 22:50]:
>
> the question is - what would you want this "better window manager" to
> do?
>
Basically what window managers such as Ion, fluxbox, and ratpoison do,
namely, manage the tabbing of related windows in the window manager.  I
have always been a strong proponent of MDI and tabbing, only lately
seeing that it should perhaps be up to the window manager to manage
things like this.  I guess it's more or less an issue of having a
capable desktop environment and window manager, or not.  We have a
choice, no one is forced to use tabs in epiphany.  The only real problem
is that having both multiple windows and tabs is that it complicates the
interface.
However, I personally believe that having the option of a MDI is
warranted when one are dealing with similar documents, such as web
pages.  They are often viewed together and thus having them grouped
together seems logical.
>
> This is actually the point, If for instance, I have 8 browser windows, 6
> files open in gedit etc, it is a lot easier in a tabbed view (two
> entries on the taskbar)
>
The question is, is a taskbar that doesn't do grouping of windows
belonging to the same process under one item in the bar, what one wants?
It seems wrong somehow.  The whole idea of a taskbar has always seemed
flawed to me, as it stand now anyway.
>
> Have you used the SDI in office2000 - it is HORRIBLE compared to
> office97 (and this is windows, not tabs)
>
In my opinion, they are both rather horrible.  The few times I've used
Office97 I've always felt that it was hard knowing what documents I had
opened.  It was a bit easier in Office2000, when you had a separate
top-level window for each document, and not worrying if any were hidden
behind the one I was currently working with (I have only used Office2000
once in my life-time, but anyway).
>
> The general effect is you have so many little instances in the taskbar,
> that they are meaningless.
>
Again, a flaw in the way the taskbar handles windows, in my opinion.
>
> It was such a bavkwards step in usability, that I believe MS made it
> optional in SP1
>
Heh, really?  OMG.  They really suck so much.  Can they never decide on
one paradigm and stick to it?
>
> To explain further, I see it as a visually equivalent to the idea of
> sorting stuff in sub-directories rther than in one directory.
>
Yes, this is definitely what makes MDI's nice.  In Windows it gets
rather painful to Alt+Tab'ing through a lot of windows.  I'd rather tab
to the top-level window, then Ctrl+Tab to the specific document I want.
However, perhaps this should be done by the window manager instead.  Do
it in one place, and do it well there.  Otherwise you wind up with a lot
of different ways of dealing with it.  There is sadly no standard for
what hotkeys allow you to move through tabs in an application, having it
in one place, you wouldn't need one.
>
> My main gripe here, is that I cant see any overriding rational for the
> HIG to dictate the use of SDI, where it is  less usable than MDI/tabbed.
>
No, certainly not.  This, however, shouldn't be the main point of this
discussion.  The main point should be whether MDI's/Tabs are a good idea
in any application.  This is, however, too general to discuss on this
list, and in my opinion, the constant flood of messages to threads, such
as this, on the topic, are getting a little bit annoying.

Until someone comes up with a better paradigm, we are going to see tabs
in epiphany.  It is that simple.  Tabs are, at the moment, the best way
to manage multiple documents in a multi-document application.  Hopefully
we will see changes in taskbar's and window manager's to do this for us.
Lets realize that there are many things that are flawed with the way our
windowing systems work and that discussing it in such a specific context
such as this is rather pointless and won't lead to any real
improvements.
	nikolai

--
::: name: Nikolai Weibull    :: aliases: pcp / lone-star / aka :::
::: born: Chicago, IL USA    :: loc atm: Gothenburg, Sweden    :::
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