Re: WIN32 compilation, the spirit of GNU software.

[Alan Horkan <horkana tcd ie>]

For cyrin' out loud!

Maybe we could do better, but Dia certainly does not go against the spirit
of the GPL.  Being pedantic helps no one, a polite suggestion that perhaps
we should make things more easily available is the way to get a positive
response.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, James Michael DuPont wrote:

> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:59:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: James Michael DuPont <mdupont777 yahoo com>
> Reply-To: dia-list gnome org
> To: dia-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: WIN32 compilation, the spirit of GNU software.
>
> I have to bring this back up, even if you may hate me for it.
> Here are some appropriate quotes from
> the GPL FAQ:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#SourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites
> Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a
> different Internet site? --- NO you cannot

That FAQ reads differently if you read all of it:
The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code "from the
same place"; that is, next to the binaries. However, if you make
arrangements with another site to keep the necessary source code
available, and put a link or cross-reference to the source code next to
the binaries, we think that qualifies as "from the same place".

Note, however, that it is not enough to find some site that happens to
have the appropriate source code today, and tell people to look there.
Tomorrow that site may have deleted that source code, or simply replaced
it with a newer version of the same program. Then you would no longer be
complying with the GPL requirements. To make a reasonable effort to
comply, you need to make a positive arrangement with the other site, and
thus ensure that the source will be available there for as long as you
keep the binaries available.


NOTE
Hans no longer distributes binaries.
All the code is available in Gnome CVS
If you talk to the people at GNU.org it is highley unlikely that you
would be able to convince any of them that the Dia developers are doing
anything wrong or deserving of a reprimand.

> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DistributeExtendedBinary
> I want to distribute binaries, but distributing complete source is
> inconvenient. Is it ok if I give users the diffs from the "standard"
> version along with the binaries?
> --- NO, you need to provide complete sources, not just diffs, with the
> binaries.
>
> I think you will all have to review your practices of distribution of
> binaries.

Hans no longer distributes dia win32 binaries
on the main dia page the source and downloads are in the same place
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/downld.html
i dont know if the windows files are included in the tarball

The FAQ are easily the most pain in the ass annoying piece of Gnu Zealot
inspired interpretation I have ever seen of the GPL (and i have been to a
talk by RMS where he explained the GPL).  They probably have to be
incredibly tight strict assholes about it for legal reasons.

Dia easily complies with the intent of the GPL although perhaps not a few
pedantic details.
If/When the site gets reorganised we can make sure that the sources are
more readily available including the bits required for windows.

The makefiles are not necessarily the source.
the need to distribute the makefiles are covered by the section on the
"preffered form".


> This FAQ clearly covers the practices of the DIA win32 distribution.
> It shows how putting

huh? incomplete sentence.

There never was and never has been any deliberate intent to make life
difficult for you, but I still dont you can fairly accuse "Dia of
violating the GPL".

> A major goal of the GPL is to build up the Free World by making sure
> that improvement to a free program are themselves free. If you release
> an improved version of a GPL-covered program, you must release the
> improved source code under the GPL.

On a less friendly and forgiving list you would have been banned by now,
called several insulting names and probably a few other things.

think very carefully before you bring this matter up again.  go to
gnu.org, ask them, get an expert opinion.  if that expert agrees with you
then get them to request we make some improvements.

The GPL needs to be upheld, but the amount of hassle you have caused over
so little is it any wonder that people are so reluctant to use the GPL?

Storm in a teacup.  More carrot less stick.  Less zealotry, more
evangelism.  make love not war ...

give it rest Mike

Sincerely
Alan "keep the peace" Horkan