Re: why did you write gossip?

[Mikael Hallendal <micke codefactory se>]

lör 2003-04-12 klockan 22.35 skrev Marius Andreiana:
> Hi Mikael

Hi!

> I'm interested in promoting code-sharing between the Linux applications.
> Could you please let me know why did you write gossip when other gtk2
> alternatives were available? ( gaim, maybe others )

Ok, before answering the other questions, a smart introduction to
Gossip.

I started writing Loudmouth (Jabber client library used in Gossip)
because:

1) I wanted to train on writing nice APIs
2) I wanted to learn Jabber
3) I wanted a Jabber library written in C using Glib.

Gossip was in the beginning a test implementation of Loudmouth. Also we
lacked a GNOME 2 IM client (Gaim wasn't ported at that time) and at the
time I really think that the Gaim UI sucked badly and didn't want to go
into a long discussion with the Gaim developers whether they wanted to
change it (which I now see they wanted which makes me very happy).

The other reason was more idiological, I want GNOME to support a
non-propriatary protocol. I think it would be really sad if GNOME
supported AIM, ICQ or MSN since they do nothing but trying to screw us
and our clients.

> * bad/ugly code in gaim
> if this was the case, did you try fixing it? is gossip structure very
> different from gaim's ?

I can't say I have looked at the code in Gaim so I can't really comment
on this.

> * bad UI
> if you were happy with gaim's code, but think the UI sucks, did you
> thought about splitting gaim in gaim-common ( code used for messaging,
> accounts etc ) and gaim-gtk ( UI ) ? Then you could make gossip depend
> on gaim-common and have whatever UI you'd like. Most important, you'd
> have an API for sending messages with any protocol and share code with
> gaim's instead of writing your own.

As said above, I think the UI in gtk1 version of Gaim sucked big time,
it's improved *A LOT* which I think is awesome!

> * better gnome2 integration
> I think gaim doesn't depend on gnome now. Do you think it should
> integrate more with gnome? How?

I'm not sure if Gossip would be able to integrate more with GNOME than
Gaim since GNOME doesn't really (at this point) have any hooks for this
kind of applications (like connecting to screensaver and such that is
possible in Windows XP (with MSN)).

> * other reasons?
> e.g. gaim developers not responsive; you'd really like to develop your
> own IM application to learn more about Jabber implementation.

Yeah, as stated above, the second.

> Thank you for your time answering this, it's important for me. I
> recently wrote an article with focus on sharing code ( not fork ) and I
> learned some reasons why this may not work from reader's comments.

So basically, I'm not pushing for GNOME to use Gossip over Gaim. However
I am pushing for GNOME to choose a Jabber (primarily) over AIM, ICQ or
MSN. I don't know of Gaim developers ideas about this but I would
definitely like to discuss it with them (haven't had time to start the
discussion though).

What we feel at this point is that

*) We want a GNOME2 client that is primarily a Jabber client
*) We want a client that has as clean UI as Gossip (GAIM has quite a 
   long way to go on this point and I'd be willing to discuss it if
   someone is interested).
*) We think the GAIM way (client side plugins for various protocols) is
   way for a GNOME included IM client (since it's more reliable for end 
   users)

So my question here is, are the GAIM developers interested in these
issues? If so, how would you like to achive it?

If GAIM developers feel the same way as us we'd be willing to drop
Gossip development and help out on GAIM (if it is at all possible). Or
if GAIM developers split GAIM into Gaim-common and Gaim-tradional-ui so
that we can apply our GUI on top of Gaim-common we'd be interested in
that too.

Forwarding this to the lists.

Regards,
  Mikael Hallendal

-- 
Mikael Hallendal                micke codefactory se
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