RE: Awesome new Mozilla roadmap!

[Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>]

On Sat, 2003-04-05 at 01:52, Julien Olivier wrote:
> Le sam 05/04/2003 à 01:43, Sean Middleditch a écrit :

> > You cannot write a GUI that properly fits into all of these.  Phoenix is
> > an attempt to make a GUI that is consistant across all of these
> > environments, and thus has to work the way most of its users' would
> > expect (which generally means Windows' attempt at usability), and not
> > the way a GNOME user would expect.
> > 
> 
> but you can write a modular GUI and provide different defaults depending
> on the OS/desktop. That means that the GUI should be customizable but
> that doesn't mean that all those options should be user-visible. For
> example, GNOME version should come with CANCEL-NO-YES button order while
> Windows version would have YES-NO-CANCEL but there should not be a
> "re-order dialogs buttons" option in the preferences.

I.e., provide the rendering engine (GRE) and let there be different
front-ends for each environment (Epiphany for GNOME, KMozilla for KDE,
Camino for Mac OS X, etc.).  This is *exactly* what is happening.

> 
> > Things like the icons used (icon styles vary across platforms), spacing
> > of elements, dialog style (everything from what text goes in the window
> > title to the style of text in the body to the button ordering), option
> > grouping, location/naming of menu items, keyboard shortcuts, etc. are
> > different on these platforms.
> > 
> 
> Well, there is a spec for icon themes at http://www.freedesktop.org. I
> don't see why Phoenix couldn't follow it on Linux. Just make sure the
> "classic" theme looks native to the desktop/OS it runs on.

Ya, this might even happen in the future - it would be nice, too, for
people not using GNOME/KDE but wanting that unified feel to whichever DE
they *do* use (GNUStep, ROX, whatever).

> 
> > Epiphany/Galeon is a great idea becuase it presents an interface that
> > follows the HIG for a specific desktop interface (GNOME).  Konquerer or
> > KMozilla or whatever is great for KDE users, Camino for OS X users,
> > stock Phoenix for Windows users, Eiphany/Galeon for GNOME users, etc.
> > 
> 
> Really, I don't feel like splitting the user-base is a good idea.
> Software are great if they have a big user-base. So, if Phoenix can feel
> native on Windows, MacOSX, GNOME and KDE, it will have a BIG user-base
> and that will make it better (more users, more big reports, more
> developers, more themes, more extensions etc...).

A bit.  The whole idea of more themes and more extensions is
anti-GNOME.  That's a lot of complicated stuff, stuff that I (as an
advanced user) never need, and stuff my family/friends/co-workers
certainly never need.  Epiphany cuts all that extraneous hacker-stuff
out, and gives a good UI, that fits in with GNOME.

Of course, the idea of hiding those features is anti-KDE, who believe in
offering choice to the user and letting them pick what's best.  So now
not only would Phoenix have to offer two different UI layouts for both
DE's, but also change the functionality exposed.

Let's not get into the fact of things like configuration backends,
component systems, etc.  You *cannot* make an app that fits in all
platforms without extensive modification for each.  And that extensive
modification is *exactly* what Epiphany/Camino/etc. are.

> 
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