Re: Balsa + libESMTP patch

[Carlos Morgado <chbm chbm nu>]

On 2001.05.02 12:18:41 +0100 Brian Stafford wrote:
> On Wed,  2 May 11:01 Carlos Morgado wrote:
> 
> | > | The patch doesn't add a --with-libesmtp, does it ? It should :)
> | > 
> | > I don't see why.  The libESMTP patch is a *replacement* for the
> | > existing code.  Balsa's existing SMTP client is buggy and does
> | > not comply with RFC 821.  Piping messages into sendmail is
> | > inflexible and requires a complex MTA installation just to
> | > post mail, especially on a workstation which has no need for
> | > an MTA.
> | > 
> | 
> | Otoh it works for most people (doesn't it? people ?) and doesn't
> | require 
> | extra stuff.
> 
> The SMTP client in Balsa is buggy to the extent its unusable except
> in a small set of circumstances.  Aside from that it cannot easily

i must be one of the lucky few. 

> be extended to permit some of the more useful SMTP extensions.
> 
true.

> The traditional Un*x method of using sendmail is unnecessary and
> inflexible.  Unnecessary because mail might as well be posted using
> SMTP (a move which avoids the need to install sendmail on a

having sendmail avoids a libesmtp install. they're even.
The World does not use a relay.
this is about onld stmp code vs. libesmtp anyway, not libesmtp vs.
local mta so this is moot. 

> workstation).  Inflexible for many reasons derived from the fact that
> very fine grained control over protocol options and recipient options
> and status etc is possible at the protocol level compared to sendmail's
> command line.
> 
that's why there is a sendmail.cf. also, there are mtas there are not 
exim. 
as for flexibility, can you do per domain routing for instance ? 

> So long as Balsa is stuck with posting messages via its existing
> SMTP client or via sendmail, it cannot move to take advantage of
> the additional flexibility available in SMTP extensions.
> 
true

> 
> Or are you saying libESMTP doesn't work or is buggy?  If so I'd like

no. i'm saying balsa shouldn't make such a change overnight. i'm saying there 
should be a 1.1 release with default --with-libesmtp=yes and then on the next 
libmutt review phase out the old code. 
i'm saying maybe there should be a libesmtp branch. pawel ?

> the bug reports, please.  A significant amount of effort has gone
> into the developemnt of libESMTP over the last 5 months or so.  If
> there are problems with the library, I really need to know about it.
> 
haven't tried it yet. just aplied the patch over current balsa and ran
configure

> | mind i'd 
> | rather have spell checking as a compile option too.
> | I'd rather see a transition period with a --with option until people
> | catch on with it.
> 
> Well libESMTP installs much more easily than pspell and requires
> no configuration after installation.
> 
true. pspell *is* a pain. but otoh you can get it from the helix monkeys :)

> 
> | > I have been using the patched Balsa for upwards of two months now
> | > in various configurations with many SMTP servers with no problems.
> | > I decided it was time the wider community had the opportunity to
> | > try it.  Bottom line is if you don't like the patch, don't apply it.
> | > 
> | oh. i assumed you wanted the patch merged on the cvs. sorry then.
> | maybe a temporary cvs branch would be nice for testing ? pawel ?
> 
> No, I want it in CVS.  I figured that with the patch folks could test
> things in a wider set of circumstances than I can try for myself.
> 

hum .. my experience is stuff doesn't get tested untill it goes into
the cvs at least and really tested until it makes it into a release

> | i am yet to see a mta listening on port 587. setting the default to 
> | something that doesn't work in the default case is not very good.
> 
> We have to agree to disagree on this one.  The justification in
> RFC 2476 for the use of port 587 for mail submission is good enough
> for me.
> 

the justification that *everyone* will have to correct the default setting
is good for me.

cheers

-- 
Carlos Morgado - chbm(at)chbm(dot)nu - http://chbm.nu/ -- gpgkey: 0x1FC57F0A
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Software is like sex; it's better when it's free. - Linus Torvalds