Re: using Gnome-Shell with 90% of all applications is absolute garbage.

[jordan <triplesquarednine gmail com>]

hey Olav,

>> that all being said, PA is still a waste of time for some users.
>
> In that case, remove Pulseaudio and accept that you won't be able to
> control the sound anymore in GNOME shell.

1st off, this means you are saying that Gnome3 will be inferior in
many ways to almost any other Desktop in Linux.
It will not provide any facility to control anything outside of
Gnome-Shells scope, unless a third-party writes an application,
that is EVEN MORE likely to introduce bugs into the Gnome-shell environment.

2nd. So, the "seamless transition" from Gnome2 to Gnome3 actually
translates into "hey current gnome-users, as of
Gnome3 - us gnome-developers no longer give a crap if your software
can be integrated into our desktop, if your software does not work
properly comply with the MASS changes we have made to our desktop
(even though EVERY other Desktop is properly supported), too bad...
it's not our problem. (even though, we are the one's introducing every
single problem, essentially).  That's not seamless, it's short-sided
at best. it also might be the death of gnome for many many people.

thanks for the clarification?

> Extreme modularity is nice, it is not the focus anymore. What is
> supported is Pulseaudio. If it doesn't work well with some other audio
> system, the interaction between them should be fixed. So changes in Jack
> or Pulseaudio, not changes in GNOME.

...and yet even for many of the simpler Desktop environments (or just
as complicated DEs as gnome), this is not the challenge you seem to be
making it out to be.

If gnome3 is introducing all of these problems, sorry bud - that's a
gnome-development problem. you can't sit here and blame everyone else.
if gnome-shell can't handle something as simple as having direct
control of audio devices via it's interface,
than it's a total failure. and last time i checked alsamixer isn't
exactly the buggiest piece of software.

> Having such (extreme) modality has as result a lot of extra development
> effort (more bugs) and you can only rely on the common features.

you can having alsamixer instead of Pulseaudio "extreme" modality,
that is laughable and That is just a total cop out. just look at any
other Desktop environment in Linux. Say, KDE. They have chosen to keep
with the modular-ness - which FYI is one of Linux's strongest points,
in general.

i suppose gnome-shell is just not for me. It does not have the ability
to run any real high-end or "killer" applications in a stable,
reliable and integrated way. and it's apparent from what i am being
told, it's developers have no plans on changing that.

by the way, and this should be painfully obvious to anyone, but
"killer" applications are what makes an OS and/or desktop successful.
Much like Apache was the killer app for linux servers...  any desktop
should provide an easy integrated workflow to use these types of
applications, gnome-shell currently does not, and from what you seem
to be saying probably will not in the future. - as that is not a goal
anymore of the gnome project?

I guess I'll probably switch then. thanks for the help in deciding :)

jordan