Re: _NET_WM_[GET_|TAKE_|REQUEST_]FOCUS & urgency

[Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>]

Elijah Newren wrote:

> On 5/26/05, Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman sun com> wrote:
>
>  
>
> > As I see it, focus-stealing is the primary thing to avoid here.  Having
> > a new window pop up in front of what I'm doing is an annoyance, but then
> > again all interruptions are annoyances, even when they are
> > useful/informative.[1]    I might not notice a taskbar flash (might be
> > looking away at the time), but I will certainly notice if an unfocussed
> > window is raised to the top.
> >
> > So personally I think raise-new/raise-on-urgency-hint are sensible
> > behaviors, and are a reasonable policy choice to offer the user. [2]
> >    
>
> This may be reasonable policy choices for some WMs to choose, but I'm
> unconvinced that it's optimal behavior for all WMs--and in fact, I'm
> unconvinced that it's correct behavior from a usability point of view
> for "mainstream" WMs.  (Reasons: (1) Users should be able to ignore
> apps that are urgent or demanding attention if they so choose and
> continue working on what they are doing; I do that often.  Raising the
> window so that it occludes what the user was doing harms
> this--especially raising a window every time it thinks it becomes
> Urgent.  (2) Having your keystrokes go to a window you can't see is
> confusing for the user.) 
Your reason #2 is invalid in this context, since I _expressly_ was 
referring to "raise", not "focus".  Having keystrokes go somewhere 
unexpected is definitely wrong, I think we all agree that this is the 
primary evil to avoid.  (See my initial comment).

> Because of this, there's no way this is
> going to be required in the spec. 
Because of "what?".  I am not sure what you are saying here.

My point is that we should NOT confuse the arguments about "focus on 
new" with those regarding "raise on new/urgent",   they are quite 
different things.

- Bill

> Therefore, it's something that
> needs to be sent as a bug report/feature request to the individual
> WMs.
>
>  
>
> > [1] - I don't take the phone off the hook when I am working, but it does
> > interrupt me when it rings...
> >    
>
> Yes, but it isn't loud enough to prevent you from hearing other
> things, nor does it stop you from seeing what you are attempting to
> interact with.  In other words, we need DEMANDS_ATTENTION to be like
> your phone.  ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Elijah
>