Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows



On Thursday 04 August 2005 10:18, Havoc Pennington wrote:
> My take on this app from your description is that "just turn off
> decorations" doesn't really work well enough if it were a mainstream app
> (stacking, pager/tasklist, moving, etc. have little unpolished bits and
> oddities). But, my experience with people that use GL development tools
> is that they're probably OK with that, since most of the apps like Maya
> are sort of highly nonstandard UI-wise, and people have old Tk apps and
> stuff like that mixed in also.
>
> This is maybe a good example of the hack being good enough. Though there
> is a feature I've thought about for drawers and for xmms's "stuck
> together windows" which is to be able to attach one window to another
> one. This could apply to your app also if we implemented it.

Hints for reposition snapping and grouping would definitely be a good idea.  
XMMS currently does really stupid things when both it and the WM attempt to 
snap position on move.  For snap, I'm thinking something like a protocol 
advertisement and distance hints on the root window, and then a per-window 
hint for SELF_SNAPPED; either that or if there were a WM_WILL_SNAP property 
on the root window XMMS would disable snapping itself.

For grouping, the app picks a group master window and all the slaves do 
GROUP_RELATIVE and then the XID of the master.  Actually that just covers 
reposition, you'd also want gravity hints in that list for resize.  Windows 
with a GROUP_RELATIVE hint set would, when the master moves or resizes, get 
positioned by the WM instead of the app.  Hrm, and for resize you'd want a 
hint for either proportional or constant-offsets (OSX drawers would be the 
latter, I think).

All of which is so much guesswork, but maybe it's a good idea.

> It's a reasonable point. Having a note in the spec like "this is how the
> legacy MWM hint works, and most WMs support the decorated flag" seems
> fine to me.

I actually wrote up some text as a suggested addition to the spec, I could 
have sworn I sent it but it ended up sitting in my drafts folder.  Would 
something like this be appropriate (in the Implementation Notes section)?

---
Undecorated windows

While the _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE properties are intended to be a functional 
replacement for the Motif window hints, they may not cover all possible 
window functions.  Window managers SHOULD implement the Motif 
MWM_DECOR_BORDER hint; they MAY implement the other Motif MWM_DECOR and 
MWM_FUNC hints.  Applications are strongly discouraged from using the Motif 
hints, and SHOULD use the appropriate _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE hint whenever 
possible.

The Motif hints are documented [insert link here].
---

Plus maybe some language about if the type you want doesn't exist talk to the 
spec list about how to get it implemented.

- ajax

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