Re: Proposal: _NET_WM_STATE_MINIMIZED

[Lubos Lunak <l lunak suse cz>]

Dne pá 25. června 2004 20:26 Havoc Pennington napsal(a):
> On Fri, 2004-06-25 at 14:13, Elijah P Newren wrote:
> > Unless I'm missing something or just not understanding, this solution
> > makes it impossible to have a window which is both minimized
> > and shaded--or else makes it impossible for tasklists and pagers to tell
> > if the window has both states set.
>
> Shaded window = SHADED
> Shaded/minimized window = HIDDEN, SHADED
> Minimized window = HIDDEN
> Unminimized, unshaded window = (blank)
>
> 2 boolean states = 2x2 = 4 combinations, each combination looks
> different, right?

 But shaded window == SHADED !HIDDEN breaks the purpose of HIDDEN - shaded 
windows shouldn't be visible in the pager (and in general, I think a shaded 
window should be considered to be hidden - you can't see the contents after 
all, just like you don't see them when minimizing to icon or taskbar, 
although in all cases you can see something, be it the titlebar, icon or 
taskbar entry).

> > Then we can define HIDDEN = SHADED || MINIMIZED_TO_TASKBAR || SHELVED ||
> > MINIMIZED_BY_WHATEVER_DERANGED_METHOD_YOU_CAN_IMAGINE.   :-)  Then hidden
> > can just mean "don't show in pager" (as it is currently defined), instead
> > of trying to rely on hidden to mean "it's minimized" and trying to deduce
> > what in the world that really means.
>
> For apps though they generally *should* want to know it's hidden, not
> that it's minimized to taskbar.

 I actually think apps shouldn't care about that at all.

> Reiterate this. The spec needs to specify things in a lot of detail
> here, and specifically address taskbar vs. WM vs. applications/toolkits.

 Actually I think the spec should say in more places what's intended for apps 
and what's intended only for desktop components communication. E.g. if you 
look at the FAQ of the Ion WM regarding the EWMH 
(http://www.mail-archive.com/ion%40list.rt.fm/msg01199.html) I think it's 
quite obvious the Ion author didn't get this and considers EWMH full of 
useless over-engineered crap, although without it e.g. Metacity wouldn't work 
very well with KDE.

> If we added MINIMIZED_TO_ICON at the same time perhaps, that might help
> force clarity and keep people from using only the TASKBAR one.
> We would also state in the description of MINIMIZED_TO_* etc. that they
> are only used by taskbar<->WM not by app<->WM
>
> > > I guess we're at the point where someone needs to draft the
> > > implementation note for the spec, specifically noting what WM, task
> > > bar, *and* applications should do. It should also define what the old
> > > WM_STATE style hints mean, on startup, and when apps try to change
> > > them, and when the WM sets them.
>
> Need to do this ;-)

 Agreed. Now, who's going to be the brave soul to do that :) ?

-- 
 Lubos Lunak
 KDE Developer