Re: Decorations (again)

[Paul Warren <pdw ferret lmh ox ac uk>]

On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Matthias Ettrich wrote:

> Later I had the feeling the most people are open to replace them with something
> better, integrated in the NET specification. 
>
> [...]
> 
> One of the problems I see with the MOTIF hints is there visual nature. 
>
> [...]
> 
> So the basic idea is to introduce a *logical* decoration hint. Last time we
> discussed that I wasn't very creative finding logical window groups. We
> basically had the three visual groups:

I was thinking of doing pretty much the same, just as soon as I got round
to figuring out some logical groups :-)

The more I think about it, the more I beleive that we should dump the
MOTIF hints.  Whilst to us, the idea of using MOTIF hints seems
reasonable because we're used to them and our WMs already support them,
to a new programmer coming into the field they seem bizarre at best, and
inconsistent with the rest of the spec at worst.

"So to comply with this spec, I also need to comply with the MOTIF hints,
right?"
"Yep".
"Well, where are they documented then?"
"Errr."

I think not.  We should definitely take this opportunity to get all WM
related hints in one, consistent, place.

> 
>        - normal windows ( the WM already knows if something is a dialog with
>                                      the transient_for hint)
> 
>       - toolwindows (usually smaller decorations )
> 
>        - windows that do not want to be decorated (but managed to gain focus
>                 handling. Panels and such are in this cathegory).
> 
>        - windows that do not want any decoration but want to be resizeable by
>              the wm with a tiny frame (floating toolbars, etc.).
> 
> 
> Not very logical, I admit, but practical. Will cover a lot of cases, but
> there's more to it:
> 
> What about the additional groups:
> 
>       - message box
>       - critical message box
>       - error message box 
>         ( these hints may also influence the WMs activation behaviour)

Now I like this idea, but we're beginning to infringe on the layer hint
ie. the type of a message box could well be used to determine the layer of
such a window eg. critical message boxes get stacked on top of all
windows etc.

I think that this is a good thing.  Merging the decoration hint and the
layer hint into a single hint describing the *function* of a window,
rather than its appearance is IMHO a good idea.

> Another topic are modal dialogs. Can't remember whether we discussed that. I
> was wondering whether a hint MODAL_FOR (similar to transient_for) may be useful.
> It would give the WM a hint which window to activate (there's no point in
> activating a window that has a modal_for window open).

Sounds reasonable.  Is this best implemented as a MODAL_FOR hint, or
using the existing TRANSIENT_FOR mechanism, and simply setting a MODAL
flag on the window?

Paul