Re: Open to discussion...

[Matthias Clasen <clasen pong mathematik uni-freiburg de>]

> 
> 
> 	Also, Gnome manages multiple desktops with its own "pager"
> application.  It manages backgrounds and screensaver setup through its
> configuration utility.  It has its own application called the "Panel" to
> make it easy to launch applications and get various system information
> (with "Panel applets"), and the Panel has a button-list of currently open
> windows, so you can always select a particular window by clicking on the
> Panel.  It also manages icons on the desktop through its file manager,
> gmc, thus providing complete drag'n'drop interoperability with other Gnome
> applications.

The term "icon" is a bit vague here. Icons in the ICCCM sense are iconic
representations of running programs - this is what wms provide. Gmcs icons
are something completely different. They represent devices, folders, files
or actions.

[...]
> 
> 	Also, minimized window icons (which reside on the desktop) behave
> very differently from icons on the desktop controlled by gmc.  So suddenly

Oh, you noticed the difference.

> you have a desktop where icons overlap one-another by accident, or some
> icons need to be double-clicked and some need to be single-clicked to
> "open" them.  This only adds to the confustion when the WM "Wharf" is
> partially overlapped by the Gnome Panel, and the pager applications
> conflict with one-another.
> 
> And the documentation for any given WM
> could be a text file, HTML, or even a custom help-file format intended
> only for use with that WM.  

Like with every other software. Why is this a problem ?
 
> user, would immediately need the following features to "go away" if it
> were being used under Gnome:
> 
> 1) Background image handling (whether this is being done by running xv or
> some other implementation)
> 2) Screensavers and screensaver configuration (and screen locking)
> 3) Minimized window icons (or *any* icons appearing on the desktop)
> 4) Program Launcher applets (Panels, Wharfs, Start Bars, whatever would
> duplicate or conflict with the Gnome Panel)
> 
> 5) Root window click handling (i.e., through WM hints)
> 6) Task-list  (showing what apps are running/what windows are open)
> 7) Application "buttons" (by this, I mean the MS Windows95-like
> functionality that a running program has a smaller, rectangular box with
> the name of the application in which, when clicked, takes you directly to
> that application.  In AfterStep this is called the WinList module.)
> 
> 8) Desktop-related sounds (sounds relating to window operations)
> 9) Logging in and logging out (i.e., starting and stopping X.  Gnome needs
> the session manager to have a chance to save the desktop layout)
> 
> 10) File Management  (we should enforce the use of gmc)
> 11) Multiple Desktops (aka Pagers)

Don't confuse multiple desks with pagers. Gnome very much needs wms to 
provide multiple desks. The pager is only a GUI on top of this basic
functionality.  

> 
> 	...that's about 90% of the code of AfterStep, WindowMaker, and
> Enlightenment.  

Sounds like fvwm is the perfect wm for you, as it does all of the above
with modules which you can choose not to start.

> Furthermore, for Gnome to be as consistent as a Macintosh,
> a Windows95 machine, or a BeOS box, we would have to require that any
> "Gnome-compliant" window manager have a configuration utility that used
> the Gtk+ widget set and provided drag'n'drop interoperability with the
> Gnome configuration utility.

Otherwise they don't get the "Designed for Gnome" logo :-) 

> 	Creating a standard that enforces the use of Gtk+, use of the
> Gnome help system, and no duplication of features (that would confuse the
> user) makes much more sense that telling the vast majority of window
> managers that they need to de-activate 90% of their code to be "Gnome
> compliant".  
> 

..."require"..."enforce"...doesn't sound very nice to me. 

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Clasen, 
Tel. 0761/203-5606
Email: clasen@mathematik.uni-freiburg.de
Mathematisches Institut, Albert-Ludwigs-Universitaet Freiburg