Re: [Usability] Rational for icons in button

["Ronny V. Vindenes" <s864 ii uib no>]

On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 12:37, Julien Olivier wrote:
> > This is only half a step in the right direction, it removes the problem
> > of keeping two icon sets consistent, but it doesn't fix the real
> > problems.
> > 
> > Making complete and consistent icon sets is very hard work[1], and with
> > some of the icons in gtk/gnome today it is in fact impossible to make a
> > "correct" set that makes sense in any locale. Too many of the metaphors
> > in use rely on an understanding of American expressions and culture
> > (such as a green light to indicate approval, or red to indicate error or
> > dismissal - I think red is associated with luck in China(?)). 
> > 
> 
> Well, to solve this problem, we should implement localized icons:
> different icons for each locale in each icon theme. In pratice though, I
> think that would be too much work AND that would be a bad idea as icons,
> by definitions, are expected to be explicit to anyone, and, thus,
> shouldn't be localized.
> 
> > While it may have been pure coincidence that caused gnome to use icons
> > in buttons initially, I don't think it's a coincidence that no other
> > desktops use them.
> > 
> 
> If we really can't find universal icons for most actions (at least
> cancel, close and validate type of icons), you're right that it could be
> better to remove them.
> 
> > Relying on theme designers to either only design themes that doesn't
> > clash with random icons from existing icon themes or to design suitable
> > icons to go with their themes, just isn't a good idea.
> > 
> 
> Well, when it comes to icon designing, I think (icon) theme designers
> are the ones to rely on (who else ?). But I'm not sure I understand you
> here...

Let me clarify :)

If we're going to keep icons in buttons, then to make sure every gtk
theme has at least one icon theme it can be used with without causing
any visual clashes[1], we either have to rely on the (_very_ small group
of) icon designers collectively designing enough sets to cover all gtk
themes, or we have to rely on every gtk theme designer (relatively
speaking a larger group) to limit their designs so that they match
existing icon themes (or they have to become icon designers too).
Neither of which sounds like a good solution.

Personally I find it impossible to draw many icons in a consistent
style, but I'm quite happy designing gtk themes. For my Glacier[2]
theme, I relied on icons from another theme, but still it's both
incomplete and inconsistent (it uses icons with buttons in the image,
which looks good on icon buttons but quite ugly on buttons with icons in
them).

Judging by other gtk themes, I'm not the only one feeling like this.


[1] Typically bad color combinations, or designs that are so similar
that the differences stand out so much they drown out the overall
design.

[2] http://freshmeat.net/projects/glacier-gtk/

-- 
Ronny V. Vindenes <s864 ii uib no>