Re: [Usability]Re: Notification area (was: Music player UI)

[Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 04:14, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Sean Middleditch">
> 
> > > Seeing what your CPU is doing, at a glance, can be incredibly important.
> > 
> > Depending on your technical experience, sure.  But does it belong on the
> > panel?
> 
> Where would you suggest is a better place for it? Nowhere is more visually
> accessible than the panel.

True.  That goes back to the "is the panel really the best place to
shove all the crap we can't figure out where else to put" thought -
that's quite a bit what it feels like.

What about those "applets" that I saw for Mac OS X - where they were
drawn as overlays, or on the desktop?

<snip/>

> > The notification area also kinda sucks for notification.  A little icon
> > on your panel changing is completely not noticable.  If the balloon
> > popups were used (those are still part of the spec, no?) it might be a
> > lot better; I haven't seen an app that uses those yet tho.
> 
> They're not implemented yet, but they're part of the deal.

Oh, well, that's good then.  ^,^

> 
> > If applets *are* the way to go for controlling apps from the panel, then
> 
>                                      ^ what does this mean?
> 
> > maybe something like quicklounge for applets would be a good idea. 
> 
> Come on dude, the panel itself is 'like quicklounge for applets'.

More like quicklounge for applets + launchers + notification area +
menues, etc.  It's not organized very well.  And in the event that I
didn't clearly state why I like more organization here (gods knwo I do
that), its mostly because the panel has a habit of reorganizing things
for you.  Log in on a different workstation with a different resolution,
then back to your normal one, and the applets are moved about.  Stick
both a notification area, several applets (say, volume control) on the
right side of your panel, and everything gets shifted about.

I posted some idea to bugzilla about how this might be fixed "correctly"
(i.e., without grouping everything into simpler containers), bug id
85959.  However, there are issues with that no matter what, and nothing
else has been proposed that solves the issue.  The best implementation
I've seen yet is the way the Windows panel groups everything together. 
Managing those groups, both as a user and for the coding, would be a lot
simpler, when you know those are the only toplevel objects that exist on
a panel.

But maybe someone else does have a better idea - something needs to be
done to solve the problem.

> 
> > (I.e., a panel on a panel).  Then you could "group" applets together,
> > and management of panel space gets a lot easier.
> 
> Adding further modality and hierarchy makes it easier?

Dunno if I'd phrase it just like that.  ;-)  I wouldn't suggest
sub-groups or anything.  Just that a "group object" is all that can
exist on the panel itself, and everything else exists in a group
object.  Group objects can't be in group objects, only on the panel.

More like adding resizable divisions than heirarchy (or what I think of
as heirarchy anyways - bug fugly trees).

> 
> > Well, if the notification area is *only* for notification, then something
> > for monitoring status of *apps* (not permanent panel fixtures, a.k.a.
> > applets) should be thought up.  It makes sense to me at least that the
> > notification area could serve both purposes.
> 
> What does 'monitoring status of *apps*' mean? When I want to monitor the
> status of an application, I look at it.

Well, that greats if you only have one desktop or multiple monitors. 
When I have  5 or 6 apps running on different desktops, I can't just
look - it goes back to your wanting to see the CPU status on your panel.

Of course, I'm going to feel like an idiot now (just now, you ask?),
since as I tried to write some examples here, I realize everythign falls
under notification - gaim notifying me of a buddy logging on, evolution
notifying me of new mail, firewall apps notifying me of connection
attempt... Only, they allow control of the app thru menues on the icon.
(launching new IM in gaim, opening firewall configuration dialog, etc.)
Does that still fall under the notification area "charter"?

> 
> - Jeff