Re: [Usability] Close buttons on instant-apply dialogs

[Reinout van Schouwen <reinout cs vu nl>]

Hello Christian,

On 2 Jan 2002, Christian Rose wrote:

> > But it does have to provide a way to close a window;
>
> That way doesn't have to be a way that is obvious to mere humans.

"Mere humans" are unlikely to install a wm that doesn't provide an obvious
way to close a window. And how is "obvious" defined? Back in 1994 I
thought doubleclicking the topleft titlebar button was a pretty obvious
way to close a window.

> Usually more than one window manager is shipped with an operating
> system, and the GNOME control center will happily list them all as valid
> options. Besides, this is not just an issue about window managers, but

Then, perhaps, if it isn't already done that way, the CC should only
display GNOME-compliant wm's. If you want another one, fine, use the
disclosure triangle. ;-)

> window manager may also change the functionality, and usually does), so
> this makes the situation different than that for Mac OS or Windows.

IMO not different enough to warrant extra Close buttons on each and every
window.

> > have difficulty finding back the titlebar close button. (unsubstantiated
> > claim, I know, but people who like to tweak things usually aren't afraid
> > of poking around until they have the behaviour they want.)
>
> There's no need to make it more difficult than it has to be. Usability
> is (to me) usually about making interfaces where the user *doesn't*
> necessarily have to poke around to figure out. In this case, not

I'm quoting a situation where the user *likes* to poke around. If she
doesn't, she doesn't have to because she won't change the default theme.

> > Do you use StarOffice? If you do, you'll know the Style and Navigator

> Staroffice's MDI windows, dialogs and palettes don't use my window
> manager, they use Staroffice's own title bar thingie, which AFAIK can't

that wasn't the point, I was providing an example.

> Yes, I would in fact very much like to still see a close button added to
> that dialog. One of the reasons is that the title bar close button is

I wouldn't, it's large enough already. Each pixel more is less visible
document text on my screen.

> very, very small and can be hard to hit for people with motion
> disabilities. That tiny button title bar button is an accessibility
> problem IMHO.

Current title bar/scrollbar/whatever buttons are likely too small as well
for those people. That's a different problem that should be addressed, but
not a cheap excuse for having an extra Close button.

> The dialog you're quoting has other accessibility problems too... it
> seems to be lacking keyboard navigation completely.

It does indeed, but I was able to achieve the exact same things as the
Stylist _utility window_ using the keyboard and menu navigation. The
palette is an extra convenience for mouse users I guess.

> change to reorder/remove buttons either. GNOME was designed from the
> beginning to be pretty much window manager/theme agnostic and that is
> what we have to consider and base UI decisions on.

I believe in a thread a few months ago it was said this is no longer true.
But I wouldn't know if there is any official stance on this...

regards,
-- 

Reinout van Schouwen
e-mail    : reinout cs vu nl
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