Re: [orca-list] Vim, is it usable for us?

[Janina Sajka <janina rednote net>]

Hi Again, Rastislav:

You should be able to use both at once, i.e. switching back and forth
between console and graphical environments all day long.

Ctrl+Alt+Fn is your friend. Usually these days the graphical environment
is at Ctrl+Alt+F1, and you should have console environments at
Ctrl+Alt+F[2-6]. These will each require login, and you can login as any
user on your system.

The problem is that they speak through different TTS supporting
architectures, and these can clash so that it can be difficult to have
speech working in both environs. The safest way to avoid this is to use
separate sound devices for graphical and console. And, you might even
want a third device for non TTS audio.

On my computers I have the following sequence when I boot up:

1.)     I get a console login prompt on tty1 with console speech already
started.

2.)     After logging in, if everything seems correct, i.e. no problems
to solve, I launch an additional 23 consoles using the app openvt in a
script like so:

sudo /root/bin/mycons

This is because openvt wants to run as root, but I want the consoles
opened as my normal user, janina. This works because the right side Ctrl
and Alt keys are different from the left side ones in the
console--unlike the graphical environment, so that Ctrl+Alt+F1 using
Ctrl and Alt to the right of the spacebar will open tty 13, not tty 1.

Yes, I have very specific use for all these consoles. I always smile
when someone on one of my teleconferences says something like: "wait, I
lost that window ..." I never lose windows because I have defined
functions on specific ttys.

Let me know if you'd like my script.

3.)     Next I run startx after killing Speakup in tty1 (which sources
.xinitrc) to get my graphical Orca environment.

This is not too much work to boot, imo, because this environment tends
to remain booted for days and even weeks at a time.

Best,

Janina



Orca screen reader developers writes:
> Hello,
>
> this may be a stupid question, but I was thinking, how do these console
> screenreaders work?
>
> Can they be used in normal terminal in graphical system, or does the OS have
> to be a fully console installation?
>
> And if they run in the graphical environment, does it collide with Orca?
>
> or is it possible to use both at once?
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Rastislav
>
>
> Dňa 30. 8. 2020 o 23:39 Storm Dragon napísal(a):
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Vim is being used to compose this message. It is, in my opinion, the
> > best text editor on the planet. Be warned though, if you do get into
> > using it and have to use a graphical text editor for some reason, you'll
> > most likely get a file with a lit of A :w, etc in it lol.
> >
> > I use it with Fenrir, most often in the console. It has spellcheck, and
> > all sorts of nifty features including backups, macros, etc.
> >
> > You may need to disable the ruler by typing the following:
> >
> > :set noruler
> >
> > If you need to know line and column information, press control+g to have
> > it briefly shown on the bottom line.
> >
> > you can make the noruler setting permanent by adding it to your ~/.vimrc.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Storm
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 04:56:33PM -0400, Orca-list wrote:
> > > Yes, Vim works well with a screen reader. You'll probably achieve
> > > better results with Fenrir or Speakup than with Orca in
> > > Gnome-Terminal, though. It also works well with a braille display,
> > > which is what I generally use.
> > >
> > > It's easy to apply the editor commands once you've read the text to
> > > decide what changes you want to make. I tend to use Emacs for
> > > serious writing projects, but that just reflects my preference
> > > rather than any limitation of Vim.
> > >
> > > On 8/30/20 4:41 PM, Rastislav Kish via orca-list wrote:
> > > > Hi folks,
> > > >
> > > > during my Linux adventures, I couldn't have missed possibly one
> > > > of the most legendary Linux tools, Vim.
> > > >
> > > > Vim's philosophy of writing and editing text with a language was
> > > > completely new for me, so I have quite enjoyed learning about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > However, after reading some introductory texts and few
> > > > experiments, I have two questions:
> > > >
> > > > * how usable is Vim with Orca? I have noticed various rather
> > > > strange behaviors like reading currently missed word when
> > > > navigating character by character or reading a line in somewhat
> > > > shuffled order when I approach it from the next line. H, J, K
> > > > and L keys doesn't seem to work at all, I have to use arrow
> > > > keys, I don't know, whether this is function of Vim or Orca.
> > > >
> > > > * Is Vim potentially useful for blind people? I can imagine,
> > > > that when a sighted person sees the whole layout of a page, he /
> > > > she has an imagination in his / her head what he / she wants to
> > > > select, delete or replace, and thus a way to express it wia a
> > > > special language can be very handy. However, blind people don't
> > > > have this ability, we rather know our current position and drag
> > > > the selection from it, until we find the ending point, as our
> > > > view is limited to max. one line at once.
> > > >
> > > > So, the question is, is the ability to define operations with a
> > > > language still that advantageous under these circumstances? On a
> > > > graphical system, would you use Vim over a traditional editor
> > > > like Pluma, or something similar with plugins, and if yes why?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rastislav
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

-- 

Janina Sajka
https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures     http://www.w3.org/wai/apa