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Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

Howdy sonfire11,

well, the biggest showstoppers are currently:
- some pages of KCM (KDE Configuration Module) are not accessible
- there is no Accessibility switcher to move between the different container / Widgets ( i currently work on some drafts here) - but the plasmoids can have an shortcut to get the focus. bad thing is you need to get into the settings to set the shortcut (as those are not bound by default) 
- the notifications are not accessible yet
- yea, well, the main menu. but this is like noted implemented and needs to get merged. i assume it arrives with plasma 5.21 - some widgets (like the network widget) need some love as they are not keyboard navigate able ( i work on that, i already fixed it for the clipboard manager) 

Most of the stuff seems to be very easy to fix :).
so its not on level like gnome or mate (what is in fact the old gnome, and got touched by accessibility a lot more early) but thinks are coming along slowly but steady ;).
i would not recommend it for full time usage, for that, there are too much missing parts IMO. but if you are an early adopter, with some technical knowledge, or even a developer, the KDE guys are really friendly and helpful for fixing issues in accessibility you report them or help you get things fixed. KDE currently migrates to gitlab, what should be ways more accessible than the current used phabricator... 

cheers chrys

Am 26.12.20 um 17:09 schrieb sonfire11--- via orca-list:

How much of KDE isn't usable right now, and will it stope someone from using it full time?



-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list <orca-list-bounces gnome org> On Behalf Of chrys
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2020 11:00 AM
To: Peter Vágner <pvagner pvagner tk>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] KDE Plasma Launcher "Kickoff" makes progress in accessibility

Howdy Peter,


However I can't find the latest accessibility related commits on the kde github.

The pull request doesnt land yet. it brings more than accessibility. its a complete rework of kickoff 
launcher you can find the request here:
https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/258


Also what about the desktop it-self?
Is dolphin showing the desktop icons?
How much accessible it is?

the workspace is accessible ( i completed this task a couple of month ago and it is already shipped by latest 
Plasma).

No dolphin is not drawing the desktop icons here. its done by the plasma shell itself.



KDE desktop has nice keyboard shortcuts for example alt+f1 to bring up the launcher,

by the way, the launcher "Krunner" is already fully accessible and is
even more than a run dialog for applications. it almost implements a
search for anything like gnome-shell or gnome-do. i realy enjoy this
part very well. until the rework of the main menu "kickoff" lands, it
might be the only accessible way to start applications in accessible way
by default (i already made the 2 alternatives layouts what are shipped
by default for kickoff accessible some months ago, but this need sighted
assistance to chenge the alternative layout AFAIK)

IMO KDE offers a lot of power i wanna have from a modern desktop
environment. and fun fact... after a very quick test, it also has a
similar or even smaller memory foodprint than Mate or Gnome here on my
machine.

cheers chrys

Am 26.12.20 um 16:24 schrieb Peter Vágner:

Hello,

I'll be testing KDE hopefully tomorrow.
I haven't yet installed kde apps just bare minimum kde-desktop.

As far as I can see kickoff is part of the kde-desktop package.
However I can't find the latest accessibility related commits on the kde github.
Or are these changes a few months old and the video you have linked to is new?

Also what about the desktop it-self?
Is dolphin showing the desktop icons?
How much accessible it is?
KDE desktop has nice keyboard shortcuts for example alt+f1 to bring up the launcher, alt+f2 for run command, 
ctrl+f12 to show the desktop and many more.
Interesting one is ctrl+alt+a show the window demanding action. If this is working as advertised, it might be 
a nice accessibility feature by it-self.
See here for Common Keyboard Shortcuts - https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/applications/fundamentals/kbd.html


Greetings

Peter

26. 12. 2020 12:38:54 Linux A11y <chrys linux-a11y org>:


Howdy,

Well KMail should be accessible (as it uses chromium to show HTML content, what got very recently a11y 
support), dolphin KDEs filemanager should also have basic accessibility, so i would say the state isn’t here 
that bad at all.
Kate and konsole still has some issues, but its a WIP.

Making KDE accessible is less a try to have just another desktop alternative, but its attempt to get its huge 
developer base understand how important accessibility is.  This should lead to an overall accessible 
application landscape.
I assume its wrong as small community like a11y to try to fix all the issues by our own, but instead show the 
developers of the software how a11y works and what fits the requirements.
Latest success of this  attempt but the launcher is elisa, the KDE music player what got full accessibility 
without any attempt to force it.

KDE has IMO an great, friendly, open minded community we should definitely get on board to make not only 
plasma but all KDE software or QT /software accessibility over all.

So things working out very great, also if it still needs more time and work to iron out.

Cheers chrys


Am 26.12.2020 um 09:07 schrieb Peter Vágner via orca-list <orca-list gnome org>:

Hello,

QT accessibility needs more adoption so it can be improved further.
Most of the GTK apps feel more polished but the trend is that accessibility on gnome is slowly degrading.

For example yesterday I've tried krusader a KDE file manager for a spin and I am impressed what I've got.
It's twin panel file manager similar to what Total commander is on windows it even has some nice features 
inspired from that such as integrated ftp / webdav client, tabs, multi rename tool, synchronize directories 
and similar. It also includes configurable file actions and keyboard shortcuts.
Some parts are accessible by using flat review, a few buttons are not labbelled but other than this it's 
working amazingly well.
What is so special about it that file tree widget is super super responsive when comparing it with all the 
GTK based file managers such as nautilus or pcman fm. And also incremental search is working great too.
It is working like a list combined with a tree view. Right arrow key expands folders and left arrow key jumps 
up a level. When using it it feels similar to browsing a popup menu. It's really damn fast and super 
responsive.
Multi selection needs a11y improvements.
Also popup menus need a bit of tweaking as it is not clear wich entries are menu items and which ones are 
submenus. But still it's very usable and in my opinions KDE developers need to hear some positive comments as 
a reward so they can keep up their great work.

Also remember plasma mobile is powerfull linux mobile environment and one day we might hopefully see it in 
action once we have accessible touch input support.

Greetings

Peter

26. 12. 2020 2:55:49 Devin Prater <r d t prater gmail com>:


I'd rather wait until the KDE apps, like Kate and KMail, and all that are made accessible, but yeah I'm very 
glad we'll have another option, as long as the KDE folks keep it up. QT still doesn't feel as great as GTK, 
but Mumble is a QT app and still works amazingly well, so maybe it's just general QT developers not taking 
advantage of QT accessibility.


On 12/25/20 9:27 AM, Jason White via orca-list wrote:

On 12/25/20 5:17 AM, Peter Vágner wrote:

Once notification area aka system tray / top pannel whatever alternative there is on the KDE desktop gets 
a11y support, it would be about time to move to KDE.


I understand from a recent podcast that the system tray code in Plasma is being rewritten. I don't know of 
any accessibility work on it, however.

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