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Re: [orca-list] Keybindings for ARIA landmark roles


On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 13:39 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:

Hi Krishnakant:
Hi Will:
Even discovering if there is one landmark on a page can be a very 
expensive operation.  What has to be done is that Orca needs to query 
each accessible object for its attributes and then look at each 
attribute to see if it matches one of the ARIA landmark roles.


I agree, however given the technical specs you just provided I feel it
would be a relative asumtion that performance wil be always hit.

In the case of counting how many landmarks are there on the page, you
will have to loop through all the objects and find for landmarks.

But in the case of what I had suggested, the querying loop will
terminate on the first occurance of the landmark.

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.

Will

Krishnakant wrote:

Hi Will,
If performance is going to be so much of an issue with landmarks, then
out of my accessibility research i would suggest that orca at least say
"page has landmarks " as a message.

What is important is that the user knows that there are one or more
landmark on the page the facility will be usefull with reference to this
page.

I think at least this might not be a payoff on performance?

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.
 
On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 13:25 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:

Hi All:

We hear your desires loud and clear and are looking at ways to make this 
performant.  Right now, it can take a very long time to gather this 
information, however, and we have decided to err on the side of trying 
to reduce the number of things that slow Orca down.

BTW, counting up all the landmarks on a page has the potential to be a 
very expensive operation -- much worse than counting up thing like 
links, headings, etc.

As I mention, however, we are looking at ways to potentially make things 
more performant in Orca, which could give us a performance boost overall 
and open the door for other things like the above.

Will

Steve Holmes wrote:

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I agree; I would not only want to know some characteristics of the
page but also be told when I navigate into things like forms or
tables.  Especially tables because then you know you can start using
the table navigation features.  But this probably  slightly off topic
from this thread but since the page contents issue came up...

I have run into Krichnakant's situation numerous times when trying to
find headings.  I guess one could press the numpad-enter key twice to
hear the counts and your landmarks count could go in there.  But I
forget half the time to hit that key sequence but that does get us
around having to have it built in the page loading sequence.

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:25:57PM +0530, Krishnakant wrote:

hi will,On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 10:14 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:

Hi Krishnakant:

Determining if there are landmarks can be an expensive operation and can 
slow performance down.  So, it might be best to only do landmark 
operations when the user explicitly requests them.


But how does user know if there are area landmarks defined by the
designer of that page in the first place?

The first rule of Accessibility with Human Computer Interface Design is
to facilitate user's anticipation about the structure of the page.

For example Imagine if there is a large page and I want to know if there
are headings.  Now, i press h and i wait for a few secons or more
depending on the size of the page, just to hear "wrapping to top, no
more headings found ".

Had I known that the page has 0 headings, I won't try the command in the
first place which any ways gave orca a performance hit.

Same thing will apply for landmarks and I believe every one agrees that
on a big page, orca will take a performance hit and would slow down the
system and overall response because orca will scann the entire page for
the structural element which the user are trying to search.

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.

In any case, what I'm hearing is that you are joining the list of users 
who want default keybindings.  Do you think the 'm' key is reasonable 
for this?

Will

Krishnakant wrote:

On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 09:46 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:

Hi Krishnakant:

The content provider provides the landmarks as part of the markup.  What 
the Orca feature does is allow the users to navigate between them quickly.

Will


hi will,
this works perfectly.
Just a quick suggestion, as soon as the user lands on a certain web
page, we must announce if there are landmarks set by the page designer
so that the user knows that the move to landmark (next and previous )
can be useful on this page.

Since orca is locating landmarks, i believe orca knows that there are
defined landmarks on the page.
I believe this is the way the scrip for mozila works?  or is it that the
first time user presses the move to next landmark key that orca finds if
there are any landmarks?

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.


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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
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