Re: volumes mark 2

[Alexander Larsson <alexl redhat com>]

On Sat, 2003-09-20 at 04:06, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Alexander Larsson">
> 
> > I'd like to propose we use a model that Dave calls desktop-as-home. In
> > this model all the files the user normally handles (written documents,
> > downloaded files, etc) are stored inside the desktop (typically in
> > subdirectories reachable directly from the desktop), much as if the
> > desktop were the actual homedir.
> > 
> > There would be no home icon on the desktop, and the file selector and
> > other things should default to the Desktop for loading and saving files.
> > (Technically this is easily accomplished by starting apps with ~/Desktop
> > as the current working directory.)
> 
> A very thorough -1.
> 
> This sounds like a cheap way of getting out of any responsibility for
> handling the home directory sanely (and fixing bugs in other software that
> doesn't), and overloads the concept of the Desktop directory. I'm really
> grasping at straws to figure out why this proposal has any advantages at
> all. It basically transfers some of the problems of home-as-desktop to the
> Desktop directory. Why would we do that?
>
> Windows doesn't do this. It has a settings directory for users, which
> contains Desktop and My Documents, which are generally referred to magically
> (non-file links on the desktop, buttons in the file selector, etc).
> 
> Mac OS X doesn't do this. It has a homedir and skel-generated folders
> underneath, such as Documents, Music, Movies and Desktop.
> 
> So, user's brain time. Assume their interactions with things like file
> selectors and browsers start in Home - because anything we don't control
> *will* default to Home (because that is the directory of most importance to
> users on *nix systems).
> 
> "Where are my documents?"
> 
>   Home -> Desktop -> Documents ... or ... Home -> Documents
> 
> Why would you look in Desktop for your Documents? Okay, so the proposal says
> we should default to Desktop. Why are we ignoring Home? Why would we want
> all of our crap on the Desktop, one of the big problems with home-as-desktop
> 
> I really don't grok this. I suggest we have Desktop where magic icons live
> (devices, etc), where files are downloaded and where users can keep stuff
> they want to access quickly. We keep Home as the traditional place-of-most
> importance, and consider having a GNOME skels system which would create
> directories like Documents by default on first login (and so that admins can
> add and remove stuff should they need to).

This view isn't all that is to it though. For a user with no knowledge
of the home concept, looking at a logged in gnome desktop. 

"Where are my documents?"

 Desktop -> Home -> Documents .... or ... Desktop -> Documents

"Why do i have to click on this home thing to get to anything?"

The home concept just isn't expressed very well in our current user
interface. Its very close to what the desktop represents, but doesn't
match perfectly.

And you causually say files are downloaded to the desktop. So, randomly
some subset of programs save files by default on the desktop, and the
rest in $home? That sounds pretty busted to me, and will be a common
cause of "lost" files.

Also, we still have the traditional problems with $home. The user
doesn't have full "ownership" of what is in it. There are (admittedly
broken, but still) apps that create non-hidden files in it that the user
can't touch. 

If nothing is on the desktop by default, and nothing gets saved there,
will users use the desktop at all, or will it just become a glorified
homedir-window launcher? (Which is how I think many of us developers use
it now.) I fear that we're not getting a useful (and used) desktop if we
restrict it to basically only contain things explicitly placed there by
the user, because most users won't create many files/dirs there, since
they mostly follow by example.

I agree that desktop-as-home have issues, and I'm not sure its the right
model. But it *is* trying to be a model where people will use the
desktop, and keeping the desktop as a bunch of launchers just won't do
that.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Alexander Larsson                                            Red Hat, Inc 
                   alexl redhat com    alla lysator liu se 
He's a genetically engineered zombie jungle king with a passion for fast cars. 
She's a wealthy French-Canadian bounty hunter with her own daytime radio talk 
show. They fight crime!