Re: What would you do to encourage application developers on GNOME Mobile?

[Dave Neary <dneary gnome org>]

Hi,

The only feedback I have about this is not positive - but that doesn't
mean I don't think it isn't doable.

First, it's already been done (Summer of Code, Women's Outreach,
Accessibility Outreach) - we should try, I think, to capture excitement
by doing something that hasn't been done before.

Second, it results in a small number of projects, for a significant
investment on the part of GNOME developers. 10 projects is not a whole
lot, in the greater scheme of things, especially if they're not directed
in a specific direction (say apps or developer tools).

I think I prefer the idea of a contest, because it has the potential to
attract a greater number of people, especially if the prize fund is
attractive, and in requires less investment from us.

That said, it is definitely an idea which will generate concrete
results, will allow us to start building a mentor group for GNOME Mobile
 that we can build further on in the future, and if other people think
this is a winning idea, I'm all for it.

Cheers,
Dave.

Stormy Peters wrote:
> I talked to a number of people at the Linux Foundation Collaboration
> Summit about this. Robert McQueen had a great idea. He suggested that we
> use a Google Summer of Code model but not just for students. People I've
> spoken to all seem to like the idea so I wanted to get your opinion.
> 
> Here's how I would see it working:
> * Couple of leaders from this group.
> * Interactive open process to define projects. (People can submit their
> own ideas.) Projects would be doable in a couple of months. Projects
> would all be GNOME mobile app/MeeGo/Maemo related.
> * We would form a group of potential mentors. I'm not seeing this as
> intensive as Google Summer of Code mentorships but we still need people
> to be able to answer questions and provide direction.
> * Hold an application process. People apply and indicate which project
> they want to work on.
> * Mentors/leaders approve applicants. "Success" is defined.
> * The time period is fixed and is the same for all projects.
> * At the end, leaders/mentors decide if projects have successfully been
> completed.
> * Successful applicants get paid.
> 
> If we paid $5,000/project, we could have 10 projects.
> 
> I don't have a good feel for how much work these types of projects would
> take. (That's probably because we need to define what the projects would
> be. :)
> 
> Thoughts? Opinions? Interest in helping make this happen?
> 
> Stormy
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Murray Cumming <murrayc murrayc com
> <mailto:murrayc murrayc com>> wrote:
> 
>     On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 08:56 +0200, quim gil nokia com
>     <mailto:quim gil nokia com> wrote:
>     > Hi Murray,
> 
>     Sorry for not replying until now. I got distracted.
> 
>     > In the context of this discussion it is useful to that Maemo 6 API
>     = MeeGo API.
>     >
>     > > If we are talking about Maemo 6, then you need to know that it
>     will be a
>     > > large amount of work to make GTK+ and libhildon properly
>     supported on
>     > > Maemo 6.
>     >
>     > Indeed, if you plan to map all the DUI libraries sitting on top of
>     Qt. What about mapping the Qt UI libraries instead?
> 
>     That would probably be easier, yes, but it's presumably a matter of
>     using Qt in a certain way. I don't believe in the just-recompile mantra.
>     It's not clear yet though.
> 
>     > > So far Nokia has only said that the community may support it.
>     > > But:
>     > > a) That won't be enough, just as it wasn't enough to get Qt
>     supported on
>     > > Maemo 5.
>     >
>     > Manpower was the only problem, right?
> 
>     Maybe, though there was also a lack of adult supervision and a refusal
>     to accept that
>     a) API additions were necessary.
>     b) It was _not_ easy to just reimplement custom widgets in applications
>     so they'd look exactly like what Hildon offered, so the development
>     direction was misguided.
> 
>     I still don't think the official port is really good enough, though it
>     makes Qt on Maemo 5 really viable. But it was quite awful before.
> 
>     > > b) The community won't have access to the necessary information
>     until
>     > > far too late. This needs people who have are on the inside at Nokia.
>     > > (like, say, Openismus. Ahem.).
>     >
>     > MeeGo plans to have a first release in May with all the Handset UX
>     whistles. I would even say that you could go to qt.gitorious.org
>     <http://qt.gitorious.org> and start the work now. Maybe there are
>     relevant bits still available inside Nokia only (honestly I don't
>     know, you might know better than me) but most of the DUI code is out
>     already and Qt itself is already integrated in the MeeGo
>     repositories since Day 1.
> 
>     I don't think anything is very clear. Maybe it will be then, though I
>     expect to have the usual complaints about lack of clear API advice.
>     However, we'll be pushing for clarity, partly by our David King working
>     on developer documentation/assistance for maemo.org <http://maemo.org>.
> 
>     > > c) It will probably require changes to the GTK+ and hildon API
>     on Maemo
>     > > 6, just as Qt has API changes on Maemo 5. So it will get conceptual,
>     > > which will slow things donw.
>     >
>     > It all depends on the approach you want to take on this. You could
>     choose a conservative approach making the current Hildon work on top
>     of MeeGo's GTK+. This probably means that Hildon apps in MeeGo look
>     and behave like Maemo 5 apps, in exchange of less work with bindings
>     and less code changes for app developers.
> 
>     That's obviously far easier, and probably a necessary first step, in
>     case the rest never gets done.
> 
>     It doesn't seem very useful in the long term though. There was no point
>     in having GTK-only (not using Hildon) or QT 4.5 (without massive hacks)
>     apps in Maemo 5, and there would be no point in having GTK+/Hildon apps
>     in Maemo 6 that feel equally out of place.
> 
>     > As a stepping stone looks good enough, and then you can decide on
>     further steps based on feedback and interest.
> 
>     Yeah, I think this should be done. It's an easy decision even if it's
>     only a small part of the plan, and things would be very bad if not even
>     this is done.
> 
> 
>     --
>     murrayc murrayc com <mailto:murrayc murrayc com>
>     www.murrayc.com <http://www.murrayc.com>
>     www.openismus.com <http://www.openismus.com>
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Dave Neary
GNOME Foundation member
dneary gnome org